Ep 394: Things We're Afraid to Admit as Aspecs
SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I'm Sarah. That's me)
KAYLA: And a bi-demisexual girl (that's me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode: Things We're Afraid to Admit as Aspecs.
BOTH: Sounds fake, but okay.
SARAH: Welcome back to the poooood! I didn't even mess up the intro.
KAYLA: That's actually very impressive when you think about it.
SARAH: I thought of that this morning and I practiced it just once.
KAYLA: Oh, did you?
SARAH: But I got it right when I practiced it, too.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: So, I didn't, like, listen to it.
KAYLA: So, not the most organic experience.
SARAH: Wow! You come to us for organic fruits and vegetables…
KAYLA: Organic experiences.
SARAH: Free range…
KAYLA: Free range podcasters.
SARAH: We are free range.
KAYLA: We are. We are. And you can tell.
SARAH: We're deeply free range. What? Okay, there's a tattoo on your arm that I can see.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Oh, it's that.
KAYLA: None of them are new, I promise.
SARAH: I know. That's why I was like, what is that?
KAYLA: What is that?
SARAH: I was like, I don't think she got a new… I was trying to figure out what it is
KAYLA: You're at a slightly different angle than my computer has been at previously. Maybe you can see more of my arms?
SARAH: Yeah. It's really like, head on, you know?
KAYLA: Yeah. I have my computer sat… because the desk… Okay, listen, I moved. Okay?
SARAH: Again!
KAYLA: Again! Because that's what you do in Boston, it is you move all the time. And all at the same time.
SARAH: But it's not September 1st?
KAYLA: Yeah, we… yeah, anyway. So, I am recording at a desk in our living room that I use as my craft desk because my work desk is in the bedroom and Dean needs to sleep when we record at midnight.
SARAH: It's 11:13. You need to get a tent to put around you…
KAYLA: I do, I need one of those
SARAH: And it has like that… the soundproofing stuff.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm. Because this house is like fully… like, there's an upstairs where the bedroom is, but there's just stairs to it and it's just open.
SARAH: You don't have rooms.
KAYLA: It's just kind of all one big situation. Anyway, but this desk, I'm not using a desk chair at it, I'm using one of like our armchairs, because we didn't want to have…
SARAH: Ooh! It's giving armchair...
KAYLA: And this chair is a little low and my desk is all the way as low as it can go, but it's still not quite low enough for the chair. And so, if I just have my computer on my desk, then I won't be able to see it… my mic being right there.
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: So, I put you on top of my tackle box that I keep my crafts in.
SARAH: Your tackle box!?
KAYLA: And so, you're very tall now.
SARAH: I would have called that a caboodle.
KAYLA: It's actually a branded… it's a caboodle, actually
SARAH: Really!?
KAYLA: Yeah, I got it from Marshalls years ago, but it is a branded caboodle.
SARAH: But I do think more people can picture a tackle box than a caboodle.
KAYLA: Perhaps. It's a kitten caboodle. It even has a little mirror in it.
SARAH: Meow! Also, caboodles come in many different sizes and shapes whereas a tackle box is a tackle box.
KAYLA: I guess. I grew up having a tackle box this size and shape that I used for my craft store, it was like a fishing tackle box, it was like green and white. I didn't use that to fish, I don't know why I had it.
SARAH: Because of where you're from.
KAYLA: Maybe. But like, who got that for me?
SARAH: Fishermen.
KAYLA: A fisherman, right. Anyway!
SARAH: Anyway, welcome back to the pooooood! We're back!
KAYLA: We’re back!
SARAH: I hope everyone had a delightful break. I hope if you wanted it to be productive, it was productive. I hope if you didn't want it to be productive, it wasn't.
KAYLA: Indeed.
SARAH: Shall we just dive in? Do we have anything else to say? We'll get to it all later.
KAYLA: I'm sure it'll come up.
SARAH: Kayla, tell me, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week, we were inspired by a TikTok that Sarah found.
SARAH: Like four weeks ago, at the beginning of break.
KAYLA: I know. Sarah only has pod ideas when we're on break.
SARAH: Maybe that's why we go on break. So that I can come up with ideas.
KAYLA: Maybe we should go on break more often. It was this person and they were talking about things that they're afraid to admit as a gay person.
SARAH: As a gay man, yeah. So, this is by Armanti Reed on TikTok. And I came across it and I said, this is very silly funny.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: The delivery was also excellent.
KAYLA: A very good delivery in the video, yeah
SARAH: And every time he would turn the page to go to the next one.
KAYLA: Yeah, he had a little notebook
SARAH: The first one was that he doesn't know what pronouns you're supposed to use for a drag queen when they're out of drag. Like, he wasn't sure if you should use the drag pronouns or if they had ‘civilian pronouns.’
KAYLA: And so, he said, “so, I just try not to refer to them.”
SARAH: Yes. Another one that I would like to include, I'm just going to play it aloud; I already forgot what it was.
KAYLA: Great.
SARAH: So, it's going to be fun and exciting for all of us. Let me turn my mic.
ARMANTI REED’s VOICE: I don't like when boys wear skirts. Not because there's anything wrong with it, but because oftentimes the ones they pick are ugly.
SARAH: And you know what? I agree.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But that's the type of vibe, of like things that this individual was scared to admit as a gay man. There was a follow-up to this where many people validated many of his concerns.
KAYLA: His concerns!
SARAH: But I thought we should do that, but for aspecs. Let me prepare for this podcast.
KAYLA: Ooh!
SARAH: We've both just put on our purple-colored glasses.
KAYLA: Purple-colored glasses.
SARAH: See, you look very chic.
KAYLA: Oh, thank you!
SARAH: I look like a 47-year-old woman in the ‘90s who spends a lot of time at the library.
KAYLA: I think that if you'll… the rest of you looked different right now it would be better.
SARAH: That's true, it is partially the way that the whole of me looks.
KAYLA: It's just kind of like the Adam Sandler shirt.
SARAH: Uh-huh
KAYLA: The like, you look bald.
SARAH: I look bald because my hair is in a ponytail. I was going to leave it down, but I was too warm.
KAYLA: Right. I think if you looked, you know, in your full glam, you would look good.
SARAH: It's giving like, my headphones are connected to a Walkman, you know?
KAYLA: Yeah, and I think that could be chic too.
SARAH: I don't know about that. I don't know about, you know… it's fine.
KAYLA: Sure. Okay.
SARAH: Anyway. Wow, I took them off and now everything is so yellow. So, okay, so we're doing aspec things that we're afraid to admit as aspecs.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Some of these may not surprise any of you as long-time listeners.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Also, I would like to give a shout out to the person who my coworker had a meeting with at work.
KAYLA: Oh my God! True!
SARAH: Who I emailed with this person to set the meeting with my coworker. And then in the meeting with my coworker, this person told my coworker that they were a fan of my podcast.
KAYLA: Heeeeyyyy!
SARAH: And I was like, why didn't he say it when we were emailing?
KAYLA: To me?
SARAH: And my coworker was like, I think he didn't want to seem too forward, too pick-me. And I was like, no.
KAYLA: I would have liked it. I have… because we've been recognized in public, I think a total of once.
SARAH: Well, yeah, because that… I was like, listen, we don't get like recognized or like acknowledged in the wild very often, except for that one time we got recognized at the MET.
KAYLA: The one time, at the MET, which was very exciting. So, it's always exciting. But I have wondered from time to time… because we also… like there's a lot of aspec people that live in Boston, and then you're in LA where everyone lives. And so, I have wondered, like, why has nothing ever happened at work before? Not that a million people listen to us or anything.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But, exciting times.
SARAH: Yeah. He was like, yeah, I saw her name and I was like, oh my God, is that the same one? And then it was.
KAYLA: How did he verify that though?
SARAH: He could have gone on our website.
KAYLA: I guess that's true.
SARAH: Not hard to verify.
KAYLA: I just like… it's not like you have the most unique name.
SARAH: No, but if you can find me… if you can find me on LinkedIn...
KAYLA: Yeah, but no, that's fair. Also, like if you're a listener of the podcast, you know the industry that you're in, so.
SARAH: Yeah, the general information.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: The other day I was looking at a bunch of famous people's LinkedIn's because…
KAYLA: Yeah, you really were.
SARAH: My high school APUSH teacher requested me on LinkedIn, like out of nowhere.
KAYLA: Love!
SARAH: And somehow this led me down the road of looking at famous people's LinkedIns, they're kind of crazy. You should look at JLo, everyone. You should look at JLo’s LinkedIn.
KAYLA: Yeah, I didn't know that celebrities were doing that.
SARAH: JLo is apparently a pilot and nothing else.
KAYLA: I just don't think so.
SARAH: Anyway.
KAYLA: Okay, we must begin.
SARAH: Things I'm afraid to admit as an aspec. Would you like to go first? Or shall I?
KAYLA: You can go first.
SARAH: Okay. I have two that are related.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: So, I would like to do them together.
KAYLA: Okay, if you must.
SARAH: You may comment on the first before the second…
KAYLA: Oh, thank you for the permission to comment on something on my own podcast!
[00:10:00]
SARAH: But you may not give your own
KAYLA: Go ahead.
SARAH: Okay. I do not know what most of the hyper-specific labels mean. Even if we went through them on the podcast, I almost certainly do not remember. Remember when we had Ash on for the therapy episode and she was like, “oh, I use this term, I learned about it on your pod.” I had no idea what they were talking about. I just went with it.
KAYLA: Is that your two or is that one?
SARAH: That's one.
KAYLA: That's one, okay. I had something very similar written down, but I'll let you continue.
SARAH: Well, okay, I'll do my next one. I do not know how to pronounce any of those neopronouns and would be hard pressed to use them in a sentence.
KAYLA: A neopronoun or the aspec micro labels?
SARAH: This is about neopronouns.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: That's related though, because it's about the names of things.
KAYLA: Yeah, sure.
SARAH: Are XE, and ZE pronounced the same? I don't know. I could not use any set of neopronouns in a sentence without pausing to think for 10 seconds first, maybe even 11.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think I would agree with that for myself. I had written down… because in the original TikTok, he says that he doesn't like when straight people ask him about gay terms because he doesn't know either. And I had written down that I don't like when people ask me about micro labels because I don't know either.
SARAH: You don’t know. I like didn't even know what Ash said. I was just like, sure. I almost was like, wait, what is that again? And then I was like, it doesn't matter.
KAYLA: Wow! Rude. It doesn't matter.
SARAH: Well, it wasn't pertinent to the topic.
KAYLA: I suppose.
SARAH: It would have derailed us and I didn't want to look stupid.
KAYLA: Well, now look at us. Well, now look at us.
SARAH: If you say to me, I think there are, I know, I could give you WTF or quoiromantic.
KAYLA: That's one of the OGs.
SARAH: That's one of the OGs, because also, for a while, I was like, is that what I am? And then it wasn't. I could do like demi, obviously, what else do I know? Grey.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: But you start getting more specific than that.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I need to whip out a dictionary.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: And that's okay.
KAYLA: And that's okay. I mean, the thing is, though, is that it's not like you don't know them and you're like, that's stupid. You're just like, okay.
SARAH: I'm just like, sure.
KAYLA: Great, I love that for you.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Okay. I'll do one that is more general queer than aspec-specific.
SARAH: Sure.
KAYLA: I am not confident about the difference between bi and pan.
SARAH: It's funny because you're bi.
KAYLA: It's funny because I'm bi. I have an explanation that was given to me or I read somewhere at some point that I think maybe makes sense, but also…
SARAH: That's the one that you gave to me that made it make more sense to me.
KAYLA: But the more I think about it, the more I'm like, maybe that doesn't make sense.
SARAH: Here's the thing, I understand the difference in my heart…
KAYLA: Right, but not in my mind.
SARAH: But when asked to explain… here's how I think of it, and this might not be right, it might be misinformation.
KAYLA: Exactly.
SARAH: I think of pan as all the genders.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: The gender does not matter in the attraction.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You are attracted to all genders. You're attracted to the person, the gender has nothing to do with it. Bi is you're attracted to the person because of their gender and you are attracted to two or more genders. So that could still be all genders, but it does not have to be.
KAYLA: Yeah. That was the explanation that I found to be the most helpful was like, a bi and a pan person could be attracted to the same amount of genders or identities. But for a bi person, the gender is still something that is like looked at, whereas for a pan person, it's just like that's not in the picture at all. And in my heart, I get that. But I also feel like there's a lot of bi people who identify as bi, who like under that definition are pan, but they don't identify… Do you know what I mean?
SARAH: Some people just use the term that they vibe with and it's the vibes only.
KAYLA: Right, exactly.
SARAH: Yeah, I just Googled it to make sure that we have that right.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: Google says, pansexuality is often called gender-blindness, which makes sense.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Whereas bisexuality, it means attraction to more than one. Now, I guess in theory, does that mean that if you're bisexual, you could be attracted to women and non-binary people and gender-fluid people and agender people, but not men? Yes, right?
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: Because you are attracted to more than one gender. Bisexuality does not posit which genders you are attracted to, just that there is more than one.
KAYLA: More than one, yes. So, to be pan, it has to be everything.
SARAH: I think so.
KAYLA: So, you can't be like, oh yeah, I'm attracted to everyone except like a cis man, or like except this one thing.
SARAH: Yeah. Or you couldn't be like, I'm attracted to everyone, including non-binary people and whatever, except for agender people. Fuck those guys!
KAYLA: Fuck those guys! Yeah, I think if you're pan, it really has to be like a truly like whatever situation. Like, it truly does not matter to me.
SARAH: Yeah, I think it also gets tricky though with bisexuality. It's like, okay, well, like, you don't know looking at someone if they identify as agender or genderqueer or gender-fluid. Like you don't fucking know.
KAYLA: Yeah, this is why it doesn't make sense.
SARAH: So, like, they're kind of the same, but not.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Glad we had this talk.
KAYLA: That helped me none. I love it.
SARAH: Great. My next one.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: I do not know what the garlic bread thing is. Where does it come from. I think we have talked about this on the pod before, I still do not know.
KAYLA: I also do not know. Certainly, I must have known at some point.
SARAH: Asexuality, garlic bread origin. I guess it's just the same as the cake one.
KAYLA: I think so
SARAH: It's just that eating garlic bread is better than sex.
KAYLA: I feel like maybe someone said it on the internet once and it just became a meme and then it was just that's how it is.
SARAH: Yeah, it took off on social media and Reddit around the mid-2010s…
KAYLA: I feel like there are other ones… I feel like I've seen ones that are aro-specific too. Like a different food that was aro community-specific, but now I do not remember.
SARAH: See, when I think garlic bread, I also associate that with vampires.
KAYLA: My mind always goes to Olive Garden, even though that's breadsticks, it’s different.
SARAH: Yeah, I do not think there is garlic involved in that.
KAYLA: I don’t think so either.
SARAH: I had garlic knots the other day…
KAYLA: Ugh, garlic knots
SARAH: That were the garliciest knots I have ever beheld.
KAYLA: I haven't had a garlic knot in I don't even know how long.
SARAH: The garliciest knots my tongue has ever touched.
KAYLA: Wow!
SARAH: It was like 50% garlic, 50% knot!
KAYLA: 50% not garlic or 50%...
SARAH: Knot.
KAYLA: A knot, okay. But maybe both.
SARAH: Perhaps. It was honestly… I'm going to be honest with you, it was too much garlic. The ratio, it wasn't right.
KAYLA: Noooooo! That's too bad. My next one is related to this.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I don't really like cake that much.
SARAH: Mm, I only like specific types of cake, and I am picky about frosting.
KAYLA: I…
SARAH: Here's a question.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: As a demi individual, if you were given the choice between cake and sex...
KAYLA: For me, it's really going to have to depend on a lot of things.
SARAH: Yeah, a lot of factors.
KAYLA: Because I don't like a lot of cakes.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, if it was like a really, really good cake…
SARAH: A pre-vetted cake
KAYLA: And the worst sex. Or if it was like a mid-cake and the promise of the best sex I've ever had…
SARAH: What if it is a mid-cake and mid-sex?
KAYLA: Am I tired? What time of day? Am I hungry? Am I tired?
SARAH: I don't know.
[00:20:00]
KAYLA: Is it hot in my apartment? There are just so many factors.
SARAH: You're neutral.
KAYLA: I'm neutral across the board?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: If I don't eat the cake, are there other desserts? Like, am I… no desserts for the rest of that day? Or like, could I have sex and then have a brownie?
SARAH: I don't know, it has gotten too complicated.
KAYLA: I'd probably have sex.
SARAH: That's crazy.
KAYLA: I don't really like cake that much.
SARAH: I would eat cake, if it was a cake I didn't want, I would have neither cake nor sex.
KAYLA: That's fair. What if you had to do one though?
SARAH: I would die.
KAYLA: Certainly not.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Mm, that's tough.
SARAH: Okay. All right. I have another two related ones. Are you ready?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: This one is getting a little bit longer.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: The only aspec flag that I actually properly like is the aro-ace flag. Thank God it applies to me
KAYLA: To you, mm-hmm
SARAH: The ace one is… whatever. It's fine, I guess. It feels a bit cold to me. It doesn't have the warmth of the lesbians or the regular rainbow.
KAYLA: It's a lot of cool color.
SARAH: Yes. Is this embracing a negative stereotype about us?
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Am I reading too much into this? Probably.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: I don't love the colors of the aro one. I like a green, but not that kind of green.
KAYLA: Quite bright, the greens.
SARAH: Yeah, I like a hunter green.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Like you'd see in the fall time outdoors, you know
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And then the aro and ace flags together don't look very good, I say as a person who wore my aro-ace flag hat today.
KAYLA: The purple and the green, you don't like together?
SARAH: The color schemes don't work.
KAYLA: Not the most complementary colors.
SARAH: We had this problem with our book cover.
KAYLA: We did.
SARAH: Where we wanted to include both colors.
KAYLA: Both, and they were so... And we were like, eww.
SARAH: And it ended up being very purple-heavy. And I have seen some people be like, well, it's so ace-heavy. It's like, if we had made it 50-50, it would have been so ugly.
KAYLA: It would have been crazy to look at, it would have
SARAH: Like, I guess if you had changed the… if you'd made them more pastel, I think they might work together…
KAYLA: Yeah. Because that's the thing, I've seen people say, if you take the purple from the… if you swap the purple in the ace flag with the purple in the bi flag, it actually makes both flags look better, I think.
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: The bi flag is purple is warmer, I feel like. It's not as like blue-toned, maybe, as the ace flag. I don't know, it just looks better.
SARAH: Yeah. I like a warm-toned color. I'm not a cool-toned girly.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: That's why I like silver jewelry… No, that's not true. That's why I like gold jewelry, even though silver looks better on me.
KAYLA: What do you think about the… I forget what the name of it is, the like new ace flag. What do you think of those colors? Those are warmer colors.
SARAH: Hold on. This incorporates my next point.
KAYLA: Oh, sorry, go ahead.
SARAH: Related to my previous point, if you know you know, I won't elaborate… except Kayla did.
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: I hate discourse, and have absolutely no interest whatsoever in engaging with it. It's probably important, maybe sometimes. But there are people who are smarter and more informed than me who can handle that and arguing on Twitter won't help anyway. I understand I am a hypocrite because I have a whole podcast and a book, but I am not an activist and I don't want to be. So, not only do I not see the discourse in the community these days, I actively avoid it. Side note, I only knew about the flag drama because Kayla brought it up. I do not even want to know what you are arguing about. I do not want to touch your discourse with a 35-and-a-half-foot pole. Sorry, I just want to exist. Thank you.
KAYLA: Mm. I don't think that's going to go over well.
SARAH: Listen, there are aspects of discourse that are important. I just don't want to be the one having those conversations. What am I adding that is helpful?
KAYLA: I don't know.
SARAH: I just want to exist. Let me exist.
KAYLA: Yeah, fair.
SARAH: I do think the new flag is visually… I like it better because it's warmer.
KAYLA: I don't mind it visually. I feel like, like you, I don't really love any of them visually. Like if I were to design a flag, they're just not my favorite color combinations, me personally. I just feel like I'm also not much of a flag guy.
SARAH: Yeah, I think the way… I keep thinking about like the new flag and I just looked it up to look at it again. You know what? I would like it better if it were like the lesbian flag but purple.
KAYLA: Hmm. They just really got the lesbian flag right. Like it looked… they just did a good job.
SARAH: It’s so good. Yeah, I understand the importance of the colors meaning something.
KAYLA: I always forget that like every single pride flag, the colors mean something.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I literally never remember that.
SARAH: And that's part of the reason why people get so up in arms when people criticize them. It is because they're like, well, don't you want to represent this group of people or this thing? It's like, I never said that, I just said that I don't like this color.
KAYLA: Yeah, fair.
SARAH: Hi, this is Sarah from the future. This is probably redundant, but I just want to be crystal clear, that in basically that entire conversation where we're talking about flags, we are literally just talking about the aesthetic visual appeal of the flags. I know we got into a little bit the meaning of the colors and things. Obviously, there has been a lot of discussion around the new flag that has been proposed for the ace community. I think those are great discussions that are happening, people more informed than me are having them. I was just looking up a little bit more so that I had a slightly more informed opinion. And the fact that one of the stripes on the previous flag represented allies is certainly interesting. But I do think most people don't know what the stripes mean. If what the community ultimately decides is that we want to keep the flag and just change the meaning of the colors, if the community decides that we do want to switch to the redesigned flag, great, cool. I'm on board. I am just here to exist. And no matter what we land on, I will be lightly, gently, lovingly judging all of the queer flags for how they appeal to my particular aesthetic tastes. And that won't change. Okay, thanks, bye.
KAYLA: My next one, I have one that is slightly related, which is that I don't really like aspec social media anymore because…
SARAH: Yeah, I don’t either
KAYLA: I think we were very involved at one time… when also we had a lot more free time. Like it was during COVID, we just kind of didn't have a lot to do.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And I think we made some interesting choices while we were there that were not correct.
SARAH: They were bold.
KAYLA: They were bold.
SARAH: They were wrong.
KAYLA: They were choices. We were loud and wrong.
SARAH: It happens to the best of us.
KAYLA: As it happens to many early 20-year-olds who decide to have a podcast. Not the best excuse. Anyway, very burnt out on the whole thing. I often just think about like, it feels very like a small town to me where everyone knows everyone. And when I think about other sexualities’ presence on social media, it is not like that.
SARAH: It’s not like that, yeah
KAYLA: Like, it's not like you have, this is the gay influencer. This is maybe an influencer who happens to be gay.
SARAH: Maybe a lot of gay people will have heard of this person, but…
KAYLA: Yeah, I think maybe within the lesbian community, I've seen it a little bit, especially with like when the TikTok lesbians start dating and then they break up and it's like, there's kind of like that more enmeshed community situation, but it just feels very small town, where everyone knows everyone.
SARAH: You also see that in women's sports too. It's basically just like whichever sect of online lesbians you're involved with.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's fair. I think maybe just smaller, I don't know, identity groups in general. I don't know.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: It just feels too small to me that you can't do anything without it being like...
SARAH: I think that's part of the reason why I don't want to touch discourse with the 35-and-a-half-foot pole, it is because if everyone kind of knows everyone, then everything you say is connected to everything you've ever said.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And… you know… because sometimes you see a good tweet on the internet from a fucking stranger and it's like, yeah, they made a good point.
[00:30:00]
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You can't do that in the aspec community. You can't just be like, just looking at this one thing, okay, good point. And that's not to say that like, I have ghosts in my past that chase me.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: It's just like, if you're going into discourse, I think it's better for everyone to not already have preconceived notions about who you are. No, it is relevant. Do you understand what I'm saying?
KAYLA: I do understand what you're saying. I think for me, the issue is more just the platform that it's happening on.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like, those exact same conversations could be had in person or in a different platform. And I think those would be good and helpful and productive conversations.
SARAH: Have a fucking convention, sure
KAYLA: Sure. Because I think a lot of the topics that come up in discourse are valid and important.
SARAH: They’re important
KAYLA: And there are things that should be worked through and discussed. I think it is the platform and algorithms and just being behind the screen.
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: Like, I think in general, the older I get, the more… I don't know if it's an age thing or just having been on the internet for so long, but like, more and more, I'm just like, I don't want to have these conversations online with people because people don't have conversations online like that in good faith.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like, everyone just needs to go touch grass. Like, there is no nuance online, when you're typing something, people don't know you. I think when you're in an in-person conversation, you can say things that are a little bit more like… not controversial, but there's more rooms to make mistakes and to learn and to grow.
SARAH: Because people are looking at your face rather than…
KAYLA: Right. And you can… if someone… if you say something and another person says, oh, I don't really agree with that or like, I don't think that's right. You can very quickly have a conversation about it.
SARAH: You're given more grace.
KAYLA: Yeah, there's more grace. There's more like, okay, let's talk this out. Let's figure this out.
SARAH: You can read body language. You can read tone better.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think… so I think… to me, it's more the social media issue of it rather than the actual like topics being discussed.
SARAH: I think for me, those things are completely and totally intertwined with each other and I feel like I can't disconnect them. So, like, I think that is a lot of the reasoning for me too. Like if we were to have a fucking convention and I felt informed enough about the topic, like sure, I might be inclined to participate, but I'm not doing that shit on fucking Twitter.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And there has of course been discourse in the Heated Rivalry fandom on Twitter these days and everyone has things to say.
KAYLA: Of course.
SARAH: And do I have opinions on a lot of these things? Yes. Am I going to publicly share them? Absolutely the fuck not. Like I've gotten to the point in my life where it's like, okay, if I have an opinion about something, I will text the group chat, I will text my friend. I am not putting that shit out on the internet to have people yell at me or agree with me. Like 99% of the time, I'm not adding anything new or interesting that someone else couldn't.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, I don't want to get involved with that shit. I think for me, when I think about talking about like discourse, like for me, it's always online discourse, it's always that vibe.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think discourse with like a capital D is a specific... It's not, to me at least, when I talk about discourse in this thing, it's not even the topics being discussed, it's like the way it's being discussed online.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Because like these same topics, like, I'll talk to you about things like that. Like I'll talk to my friends. And it's not sexuality-specific to me either, there's like a lot of politics things that I'm just like, I can't engage with this online because people are just not... like, it is just not a productive place to debate and to learn and to like have those conversations.
SARAH: Right. There's bad faith, there's people who think that every single thing they say is true and you can show them facts and it doesn't sway them at all. Like, it's people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: People who are on their high horse. And it's like that's not constructive to having a good conversation that actually benefits the community. And that's maybe why you were like, people are going to be offended by what I said earlier about discourse and me being like, why is that offensive? It's because I was thinking of discourse as online dumb shit.
KAYLA: Yes, not like serious topics.
SARAH: Not like real important conversations that need to be had in the community.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think it's just hard especially for a community like the aspec community because it's smaller and people don't have an in-person community as much. It's like these are real things that need to be worked through and sometimes the only platform available is online and that's just not a great place for it ideally.
SARAH: It’s not ideal
KAYLA: And so, then it's like, well, now what?
SARAH: Yeah. And like, even if you were to have a convention, like, that would still be exclusionary of people who couldn't come to the convention for money reasons or geographic reasons or health reasons. So, it's never going to be perfect.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, I think that's just what's so interesting about the aspec community growing so much in a digital era, it is that I think a lot of the discourse that happens is about how different being aspec is for people in different countries, people who speak different languages, different races, different disabilities and abilities. And earlier in history, those are things that would have been worked out in the smaller pockets of the community and then in the information era later brought together.
SARAH: And then brought together
KAYLA: But now we're building the plane while we're driving it and everyone came together at the same time and is trying to build one large community together. And it's just like, you know, it's very different than how other sexualities, I think, like kind of formed as like…
SARAH: Somebody is trying to build a Biplane, somebody is trying to build a 747, but it's like, this is all one plane, it's going to have to fucking fly.
KAYLA: Yeah, so it's just, I mean, it's very interesting and it's just, you know, I don't think there's a lot of major sexuality groups that have come together in this way, in this era and so, you know.
SARAH: Yeah. Or the ones that have, have split off from existing infrastructure. Like if I'm thinking about like bi and pan sort of deal
KAYLA: Yeah, sure
SARAH: Like, those are linked with each other and they didn't both build up, ground up completely separate.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Shall we make a hard pivot?
KAYLA: I think we shall.
SARAH: This is a two-parter.
KAYLA: I just feel like you're cheating.
SARAH: Furries.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: I've known about their existence for half my life.
KAYLA: That's crazy.
SARAH: I know, it's true though. I still don't get it.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Like I respect y'all. Aff. And I am glad that you are living your truth. There are some things in the world that are like very much not for me, but I still understand why it might be for some people. Like running a marathon or wearing exclusively one bright color like the green lady.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Or wearing color contacts that just make your whole eye black.
KAYLA: Mm-mm.
SARAH: But furries, God bless them, but I can't wrap my head around that. Good for you, but I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will. And that's my fault, I'm sorry.
KAYLA: I love the accountability.
SARAH: It's important to be accountable. Do you have any comments before I go onto the second part?
KAYLA: I think… I don't know, I think maybe I agree for myself, I don't put a lot of thought into furries, I guess
SARAH: I don't either.
KAYLA: Like, I don't, to my knowledge, personally know any. It doesn't really come into my life a lot. And so, I guess I haven't really sat down and really tried to be like, why?
SARAH: There are some in the cord who you know.
KAYLA: I wouldn't say I know anyone in the Discord personally.
SARAH: Yeah, but like you have had…
KAYLA: I'm sure I've had conversations with furries in my life without knowing it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like, I just… there is not enough of a furry presence in my life that I've really sat down at my desk with my journal and been like, what are they doing this for?
SARAH: I support you.
KAYLA: It’s I kind of don't care…
SARAH: I just don't care.
KAYLA: In a way of like, I support them and it doesn't affect me. And so, I don't care why they do it, they're just having a nice time, I guess.
SARAH: Yeah, that's a good point.
KAYLA: I just don't care.
[00:40:00]
SARAH: I think there's a part of me that wants to understand and struggles.
KAYLA: That's fair. I think I would not be upset to understand, I just don't think I need to know enough to put any effort into it
SARAH: Respectfully.
KAYLA: If the information came to me, I would be happy for it, but it's not something that I'm going to take to Google about.
SARAH: You would be happy to receive the information, but you're not going to seek out the information.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Is that bad?
SARAH: Related.
KAYLA: I just don't know if I care enough, I don't know. There's a lot of things I don't care about.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Not in a bad way, I just don't care.
SARAH: Like how is chocolate made? I don't care.
KAYLA: I care about that more than I care about furries. It affects me more.
SARAH: Okay, they probably take the beans and crush them, I don't know.
KAYLA: I like chocolate, I interact with chocolate…
SARAH: A lot more than furries?
KAYLA: 100% more than I interact with furries.
SARAH: Okay. Related; I don't get the wolves thing.
KAYLA: What's the wolves thing?
SARAH: I feel like a lot of aspecs online really like wolves.
KAYLA: Oh, I didn't know that.
SARAH: And wolves are cool, they're badass, but I don't understand why so many people are so deeply into them. Is it connected to the aspecness? Or is that just a coincidence? Is it about werewolves? Is it about ABO? Is it about the moon who’s a lesbian but also an aspec icon? I worry that other people, although this worry might not be founded, given that Kayla didn't even know what I was talking about, about wolves, I worry that other people think all aspecs are the type to be into wolves. And there is nothing wrong with being into wolves. But I do think some people get the wrong idea and think that to be aspec you have to be the type of person who is into wolves. But any type of person can be aspec, you do not have to be a wolf guy or a D&D guy or a nerd, generally. You can be really into raves or paragliding. I think we should talk more about the aspecs who are into… Stop making that face! I think we should talk more about the aspecs who are into raves and/or paragliding so that the general populace better understands that being a wolf guy is a great way to be aspec, but it is not the only way. Like my status if you are an aspec who's into raves. I'm not, but if you are, that's cool. Comment if you are an aspec who is into paragliding. I've never been, but I bet I would like it. Everyone, subscribe.
KAYLA: I love how the top of your list of misconceptions the general populace has about aspecs that we must fix is wolves, which I didn't realize we were doing.
SARAH: I just feel like I see a lot of wolf content.
KAYLA: I feel like if I were to choose a creature that is associated with aspecs, it would be a dragon, not a wolf.
SARAH: I think I understand dragons more than wolves as it pertains to aspecness.
KAYLA: Explain.
SARAH: Dragons aren't real, people think aspecs aren't real.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: I'm not sure, that doesn't really make sense.
KAYLA: I don’t like that
SARAH: That's just what my brain did.
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't know about that one.
SARAH: I think dragons are cool, I think I understand… I don't know, I feel it's easier for me to understand why people think dragons are cool.
KAYLA: Maybe it's like a lone wolf vibe.
SARAH: I… maybe, but wolves do operate in packs.
KAYLA: Yeah, but people say, a lone wolf.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: I know! I didn't know we were doing that, so, I can't help.
SARAH: Hey, listeners…
KAYLA: Love that that was related to your furry point as well.
SARAH: Yeah, a lot of furries are like wolf or wolf-adjacent.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: That's related.
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: I'm getting hated upon in my own podcast.
KAYLA: Well…
SARAH: I have one more. How about you?
KAYLA: I have several I could pick from, but none of them I care enough about, I could do one more, I just don’t care.
SARAH: Okay, do one more.
KAYLA: Sometimes I don't think I know the difference between sex drive and sexual attraction and libido.
SARAH: Guess what my last one was?
KAYLA: Oh my God!
SARAH: I'm pretty sure there's a difference between libido and sex drive, but I don't know what it is. And I'm pretty sure if you told me, I would not remember.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: I’m so glad we're on the same page.
KAYLA: I love that for us.
SARAH: I think I understand sexual attraction, it's just… it's libido and sex drive for me.
KAYLA: Are they different?
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: I think they might be the same.
SARAH: Please hold; ‘libido versus sex drive.’
KAYLA: I think the reason I have this one on here is because we've always been people that are like, it's attraction versus action, you know? To describe like how aspec people can still have sex or whatever. But I, as I feel like I vaguely remember seeing someone online say, they were like, I don't like the action versus attraction thing… ugh, now, I can't even remember what they said. There was just something they said about like sexual attraction and sex drive, and they were like, well, if I have zero sex drive, how do I know if I am attracted to someone or not? Because I don't have the drive to do it. So, what if I just have no sex drive, but if I had a higher sex drive, I would be sexually attracted to people. And I was like, “what!?”
SARAH: That's a crazy theoretical that cannot be answered.
KAYLA: Right. So, I was like, maybe I don't know what we're doing.
SARAH: It's like, if my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle.
KAYLA: Not necessarily. No, I don't think so.
SARAH: Do you know what video I'm referring to?
KAYLA: It sounds familiar.
SARAH: It's this like Italian chef on this British morning show.
KAYLA: Oh, yes, yes, I do know this video, yeah
SARAH: And he was making some sort of pasta dish and the British chef was like, “oh, it's just like…” and then names something that it's not.
KAYLA: Oh, he was saying it was like carbonara because there was like… they put like a green vegetable…
SARAH: Because there was egg in it?
KAYLA: Yeah, there was like egg in it, and he was like, “like carbonara.”
SARAH: And he was like, “no, if my grandfather had wheels, she would have been a bicycle.”
KAYLA: Mm, yeah, I do know that one, that's a good one.
SARAH: I do think that what you said made slightly more sense than the bicycle.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: But I'm still a little confused by it as well.
KAYLA: Me too.
SARAH: Okay. So, libido and sex drive are the same and that's just horny.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Sexual attraction is horny for…
KAYLA: Right. But… so, the point was if I have 0% sex drive, so no horny.
SARAH: I understand the point.
KAYLA: Then how do you know?
SARAH: You don't.
KAYLA: Exactly.
SARAH: But there's no way to find out is my point.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, like, what's the point in obfus… not obfuscating in overthinking it.
KAYLA: I don’t know, I just don't know.
SARAH: That's when I brought up the grandmother bicycle.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Okay. Kayla, what's our poll for this week? Do you agree or disagree that wolves...
KAYLA: What's the wolf thing? Are you a wolf guy?
SARAH: Are you a wolf guy?
KAYLA: What is the connection between wolf and aspec?
SARAH: Is it related to werewolves?
KAYLA: I don't think I would say I'm a wolf guy.
SARAH: I think they're cool, but I'm not a wolf guy.
KAYLA: I'm definitely not anti-wolf, but I don't know that I would say I'm pro-wolf either, if that makes sense.
SARAH: Yeah. I just think…
KAYLA: Again, I just think I just don't care.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I just don't know that I care.
SARAH: And I think sometimes it's okay to not care.
KAYLA: I care about a lot too much. So, I think it's okay to let go sometimes.
SARAH: It's important to care about the things that really matter.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Being a wolf guy, not top of the list.
KAYLA: Not on top of the list, yeah.
SARAH: I mean, if like the number one problem in society was like the extinction of wolves, I would be a fucking wolf guy.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: If only that was our number one problem.
KAYLA: Now wouldn't that be something?
SARAH: Wouldn't that be something? I'm just keep picturing those shirts with the wolves that are howling.
KAYLA: That is what I was thinking of as well.
SARAH: That's all. Okay. Do we have any other points or just that one?
[00:50:00]
KAYLA: I think just that, that seems the most important to me.
SARAH: Are X-E and Z-E pronounced the same? Are they both Zee?
KAYLA: I'm sure someone could have an answer.
SARAH: Zee-zer.
KAYLA: I think maybe yes.
SARAH: Salad dressing? Zee-zer dressing?
KAYLA: It's not funny! It's not funny.
SARAH: It's not funny.
KAYLA: It's not funny.
SARAH: It's not funny. Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My beef is that it is busy season at work, I don't like when that happens.
SARAH: See, my job is slower over this time.
KAYLA: That's nice.
SARAH: Just a fact.
KAYLA: But my juice is that I'm not working again until Tuesday.
SARAH: Aww!
KAYLA: Because I took days off and I'm going to a music festival this weekend.
SARAH: Aah! She made shirts.
KAYLA: I did, I handmade several shirts. I sent a picture to someone today and they were like, “oh, do you have a sewing machine?” I said, “no, no, that was my hands.” And the thing about when you do a craft for so long, it is that you don't like it anymore.
SARAH: I think they look great.
KAYLA: That’s nice.
SARAH: They look like SpongeBob.
KAYLA: You said that and I don't know what you meant.
SARAH: You know the like, ‘five hours later’
KAYLA: I guess I can see that.
SARAH: It's giving that font, especially the Friday one and the color combo.
KAYLA: Yeah, I can see that. Well, it's green, not yellow, but…
SARAH: It comes in many colors.
KAYLA: I wasn't a SpongeBob guy.
SARAH: I wasn't either, but I still know that.
KAYLA: Well…
SARAH: Anyway, okay. Wait, was that beef or juice?
KAYLA: I did them.
SARAH: Yeah, but the last one, was it beef or was it juice?
KAYLA: I don't know.
SARAH: Gravy, I have gravy. I'm so glad I wrote this down a couple of weeks ago because otherwise I would have forgotten it.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: My gravy is that I have a dentist-confirmed or perhaps dental assistant, I don't know exactly what her title is, she wasn't the dentist, she was the lady who was doing all the stuff. Dentist employee confirmed wet-mouth.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's true.
SARAH: If you will recall, dear listeners, when Kayla and I recorded the audiobook of our book, my mouth was too wet.
KAYLA: So wet. So wet.
SARAH: And it makes the clicky noises, like…
KAYLA: You don't have to.
SARAH: I'm going to hate listening to that when I edit. I kept making those noises just when I was talking. My mouth was making too many noises, so, the man, the very nice man, had to cut up a green apple for me…
KAYLA: Apple slices
SARAH: And whenever my mouth got too clicky and loud and wet, I would have to eat some green apple and it would help. And so, I already knew my mouth was a little wet.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: But then when I was dealing with my many crown shenanigans and I had many a dental work done, they were constantly sticking that sucker in my mouth. All the time! All the fucking time! They were putting that suction in my mouth and sucking up all the water, not just where they were working, elsewhere, too.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: And so finally, on the very last day when my crowns were fully inserted, installed, and it was my last time and they were doing last X-rays, I said, I have a weird question for you. Is my mouth really wet? And she said, yes. And she said, it is a good thing, though, because it means your mouth is like washing itself out, so the bacteria they don't stay in there.
KAYLA: Clean
SARAH: But she was like, yeah, no, you have a wet mouth.
KAYLA: I love that. I didn't know this came up because you asked.
SARAH: It had been in the back of my head for so long
KAYLA: You did have to ask, yeah you did
SARAH: Because I noticed like they were always sticking the sucker in the mouth. And I was like, this is my last opportunity.
KAYLA: This is the last chance to find out medically if I have a wet mouth.
SARAH: So, I asked her.
KAYLA: I love that for you, that's very brave.
SARAH: My beef is I had to buy two more fucking tires for my fucking car. I had to spend $683 on tires and a realignment.
KAYLA: Eww!
SARAH: Let me tell you quickly, let me tell you what happened. I was driving on the road, I was making a left-hand turn. There was a bus kitty corner from me going the opposite direction at a bus stop. It was stopped. I start to make my left-hand turn. At the same time, the bus starts to proceed to the route. We both hit our brakes so we don't smash each other.
KAYLA: Uh-huh
SARAH: However, I am diagonal across the middle of the lane with oncoming traffic, the bus is just by the curb. I have plenty of space to make the turn in front of the bus, I expect the bus to let me go.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Does the bus let me go? No!
KAYLA: Mm-mm
SARAH: The bus proceeds to the route. And it was one of those buses that's like, it's not a shorter bus, like, it has like the accordion in the middle.
KAYLA: Accordion, yeah, that's tough.
SARAH: So, it took a hot second because it was coming for full stop at the bus stop.
KAYLA: That's so crazy.
SARAH: I am forclamped because I am diagonal across two lanes of oncoming traffic. So, in an attempt to get out of the way of oncoming traffic, also the traffic coming up towards me was coming up a hill.
KAYLA: Oh, good.
SARAH: So, like they wouldn't have had the same amount of warning to see me.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, I took the turn a little too wide and a little too fast and I banged the curb.
KAYLA: Ooh
SARAH: Somebody must have installed spikes on that curb, because the way that curb brutalized my tire…
KAYLA: Oh, no!
SARAH: Mind you, two days prior, I had gotten another tire patched because I had run over a nail.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: But that was patchable, great, so exciting, I was so pleased about it. This…
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: There was like a chunk that like was almost missing.
KAYLA: Oh, good
SARAH: And I could not drive very far on it and I did not want to have to put the spare on because I've never done it by myself and I didn't want to have to call AAA.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, there's a tire shop across the street and the tire shop says it's open until 4. So, I go and I drive and then I get there and the gate is closed. It is closed. There is a sign that says, “we're closed.” So, I look on maps. There's another tire shop a bit up the way. So, I drive up the way. The gate is closed. There is no sign but I call them, no one picks up. Basically, they're closed. So, I went to the tire place that I originally would have gone to because I'd gone there before but it was like three quarters of a mile away and I didn't want to drive on my guh-fucked tire that far. But I was like at this fucking point, I might as fucking well.
KAYLA: You could
SARAH: So, I drove with my hazards on going like 25 miles an hour…
KAYLA: Good
SARAH: Down the road. And then they didn't have my tires and they had to order them but then they came in the next day and then they replaced them. It was fine. Whatever. I spent $700. It's cool. My other beef is my fucking Adderall, the drug, I can't fucking get it. I talked to the pharmacy last week, they were like, call us back in six days.
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: Mind you, this was four days after their prescription was sent in.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And they still don't have it now. My doctor's office actually called me, which was weird, and they were like it hasn't been filled. What's up?
KAYLA: Great question.
SARAH: And I was like, they don't fucking have it, no one has it. But they suggested maybe… because I take 15 milligrams like doing a 10 and a five but it's extended release so then it would be… it's… so, she was going to try and do that, I don't know. I'm going to run out in like six days. And that's with my backup.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: My juice is…
KAYLA: Looking around.
SARAH: Looking around. I got some exciting activities coming up in the next month or so. You'll hear about them more later.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: You could tell us about your beef, your juice, your interest or disinterest in wolves on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod. We actually got some new Patreons during the break.
KAYLA: Oh my God!
SARAH: What are you sillies doing? We have a $2 patron who is... I lost it. I found it. Kwak Myungji. Actually, it says Myungji Kwak, but I was like, that is a Korean name and Kwak is the surname. So, I will give... I'm going full Korean.
[01:00:00]
KAYLA: So smart!
SARAH: Whether you want me to or not. Thank you, Myungji.
KAYLA: Thank you!
SARAH: Thank you for supporting us. We also have… not a new $5 patron, a one-time $5 patron. I would like to shout out Eve who gave us four pounds which is $5.34 and then canceled.
KAYLA: I love that. Thank you.
SARAH: But honestly, banger. I respect that, Eve. Thank you, Eve for your four pounds. We appreciate them even if we won't get any more. That's great. Okay, our other $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Galvin Ford, Green_sarah, Iris Tolosa, Jolly Lizbert, and Katharina Wansch. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something week are Martin Chiesl who would like to promote his podcast Everyone’s Special and No One Is. Purple Hayes who would like to promote the musician Vinther. Quartertone who would like to promote the World Central Kitchen & Doctors Without Borders. Barefoot Backpacker who would like to promote their YouTube channel, rtwbarefoot. And SongOStorm who would like to promote a healthy work-life balance. Our other $10 patrons are Sydney Price, Val, Alastor, Ani, Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, Clare Olsen, Danielle Hutchinson, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, Eric, my aunt Jeannie, Johanna, Kayla’s dad, and Maff. Our $15 patrons are Ace who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer. Nathaniel White who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com. Kayla’s Aunt Nina who would like to promote katemaggartart.com. And Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Changeling & Alex who would like to promote their company, Control Alt Access (dot com). And Dr. Jacki, Dragonfly, my mom, and River who would like to promote if you encounter us in the wilds and you know us from the podcast, say something, we'll feel special.
KAYLA: Yeah, I want to feel famous. But don't be weird.
SARAH: Yeah, be normal.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
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