Ep 395: Enforcing the Patriarchy from Under the Queer Umbrella
SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl, (I'm Sarah, that's me.)
KAYLA: And a bi-demisexual girl (that's me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode: Enforcing the Patriarchy in Queer Spaces.
BOTH: Sounds fake, but okay.
SARAH: Welcome back to the pooooooood!
KAYLA: Yo yo yo yo yo!
SARAH: Hello, kids and adults and the elderly
KAYLA: Do you think any of the elderly are listening?
SARAH: I think technically to be elderly you're like over 65, so, yes, I think so
KAYLA: It seems kind of low to be elderly, I feel like they should bump that up
SARAH: 65, I just googled it
KAYLA: It doesn't feel elderly to me
SARAH: No, because people are living longer
KAYLA: Well, they should like move things around then. Like, I don't think your 40s should be over the hill anymore, you know
SARAH: Yeah, I don't either
KAYLA: It just doesn't feel right to me
SARAH: The fact that my parents are retired doesn't make sense. My parents aren't old enough to be retired
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: To be fair, they all retired pretty young
KAYLA: And that's what’s crazy
SARAH: It’s wild, it’s wild out there, it’s a wild world
KAYLA: It’s wild out there
SARAH: Anyway, hi, everyone. How are you? What’s up?
KAYLA: Cool
SARAH: I was waiting for a response
KAYLA: From me?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: No, usually I… okay, that's crazy, because usually when you say things like that and then I respond, you'll be like, “I wasn't asking you, I was asking the listeners”
SARAH: Okay, okay, let me rephrase, I wasn't waiting for a response to my question, I was waiting for you to just say something
KAYLA: Okay, well, I was listening to everyone's responses
SARAH: Okay, that was really kind and polite of you.
KAYLA: I know.
SARAH: Do we have any housekeeping?
KAYLA: I just remembered something I should have done for the podcast earlier today, but that's a me problem, not an everyone problem, so.
SARAH: It’s just a you problem, great. Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week, I assume this was inspired by the video you sent me.
SARAH: It was, but I didn't want to do a whole episode about it. So, I was looking at the other things that I had collected over break to see if I could find any overarching themes and I did.
KAYLA: I see. So, yes, today we're talking about how sometimes within… I was about to call it the ‘queer fandom.’ Within the queer fandom. People that are fans of the queers, the allies. No, within the queer community, how people are still out here enforcing the patriarchy and other nasty things from within.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And what the heck?
SARAH: I called it enforcing the patriarchy from under the queer umbrella, but Kayla wouldn't say that at the beginning of the pod because it was too many syllables.
KAYLA: It felt too long and then I didn't end up shortening it that much.
SARAH: No, you didn't.
KAYLA: In the end, what are you going to do?
SARAH: It's fine, I just had a nice, fun way to say it.
KAYLA: Well, I can make that the title of the episode if you're going to be a little bitch about it.
SARAH: That’s true, thanks, mom. So, this came up because of several things I saw on the internet. I feel though that before we do that, I need to do a TED Talk.
KAYLA: Okay, I'll be here. I'll be back here.
SARAH: I have written this TED Talk.
KAYLA: I'm shocked.
SARAH: Are you ready?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay, because I feel like our audience knows what the patriarchy is.
KAYLA: Maybe, but maybe not.
SARAH: Well, okay, yeah. So, the things that we're going to hit on today, about patriarchy being enforced from within queer communities, it hits on like a bunch of different arms of the patriarchy. So, I said, let's back the fuck up, let's define not just the basic definition, but also like what it is built upon and what patriarchy truly consists of in the lord's 2026.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Okay, so basic definition. It's a social system in which positions of authority are primarily held by men.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Men are the big dogs, that's patriarchy.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But if I became a dictator tomorrow and appointed only women and non-binary people to every office in the country, that doesn't mean that patriarchy has ended, because patriarchy is not a state of being, it's a system.
KAYLA: It's a state of mind, it's a vibe.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Patriarchy is a vibe.
SARAH: It is a vibe. So, like, just because you change who's in charge, it doesn't mean that that changes the way that the world feels about who should be in charge or who ought to be in charge.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, in order to maintain that hegemonic system of patriarchy…
KAYLA: Okay, words!
SARAH: I know. A couple of things have to happen: One, in the eyes of broader society, men must maintain a status of superiority over women. And that superiority must be perceived as inherent merely by the nature of them being men. So, the other side of that coin is that not only are men superior, but women are inferior. They are lesser beings, they are subservient, we must keep these women in their place lest they rise up and overturn our patriarchal authority.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Okay, so what does that mean? It means point number two: In order to maintain that illusion of inherent sex-based superiority, strict gender rules must be enforced. Men rule things; politics and economics and science and any form of power, those are for men. Men are strong, they're hardy motherfuckers, they take on burdens for their family, that's the vibe of what men are. Women have to be relegated to the softer women's spheres. And of course, they're more naturally adept at these.
KAYLA: Right, of course. Naturally.
SARAH: Which is, you know, child rearing, caretaking, cooking, cleaning everything to serve men. And part of that serving men is also catering to their aesthetic preferences. And on a broad social level, that means long, luscious hair on your head, but no hair anywhere else on your body.
KAYLA: Naturally!
SARAH: It means dressing femininity in skirts and dresses like women ought to. It means wearing makeup, but only in the way you're supposed to. Don't get crazy, I don't want to see black eyeshadow.
KAYLA: Not the cut crease, put down the brush, queen.
SARAH: That's too much contour. You're telling me you want to wear purple lipstick? Absolutely not.
KAYLA: Not allowed!
SARAH: So, any crossover between those two categories of man and woman, any stepping out of your pre-prescribed gender role, whether in a big way or a small way, is not tolerated because it challenges the supposedly natural state of the patriarchy. If men wear nail polish, their wives will thank their sissies, and they will make themselves more masculine to fill that need for the family. And in return, the first domino in the collapse of the patriarchy will teeter over and fall. This is what they think, I'm not endorsing this.
KAYLA: Right, right, right, right
SARAH: And then if the patriarchy starts to fall, then women may start asking their husbands to sweep the floor every once in a while.
KAYLA: This can't be.
SARAH: Or change a diaper.
KAYLA: No!
SARAH: Maybe even stir the soup that's for dinner.
KAYLA: Noooo, no, no!
SARAH: And when they see that men are perfectly capable of these things, they will realize there's nothing behind the supposedly natural bifurcation of the human race into these two strict buckets. And if men are capable of feminine activities, then maybe women are capable of masculine activities. And they will realize, hey, maybe I could leave the home and run the government or have my own credit card or learn to read.
KAYLA: Crazy!
SARAH: And then they will revolt.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: If women learn to read, they'll become free and independent thinkers. And if they become free and independent thinkers, they'll realize that we, the men, what we're doing to them is deeply unfair. And if they realize that what we're doing to them is deeply unfair, they will revolt and the patriarchy will well and truly crumble. And this all started because a man wore nail polish. So of course, we have to keep the women locked in the home.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Strict gender roles.
KAYLA: Right, yeah.
SARAH: The third thing is that the default romantic and sexual relationship between people must be between man and woman, it is heterosexual only. Because if you have a man and a woman, there is a clear leader and a clear follower. Whereas if you have two people of the same gender, there are not clear roles to fill and we end up with chaos. We end up with men being willingly subservient to other men, and God forbid, a woman running a household, a woman making financial decisions.
KAYLA: No!
SARAH: Unbelievable! They might make it a system that benefits women instead of men. Kayla, it can't be!
KAYLA: No, no, no!
SARAH: Therefore, straight relationships only. Men and women have baby, baby grows up and reinforces the patriarchy, just as our forefathers intended.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Okay, so in conclusion, the patriarchy is not just about like, okay, men are better than women. It's also about forcing people into certain buckets to play certain roles and to live life a certain way so that the patriarchy can continue to be reinforced. Any queer identity inherently goes against that.
[00:10:00]
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Because, you know, if you are gay, uh-oh, same sex relationship. If you are gender nonconforming, uh-oh, you're not in the right box.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Et cetera, et cetera. So, it all kind of goes against the patriarchy. So, there's this thinking that like, okay, queerness is inherently like anti-patriarchal and therefore queer people are free of the patriarchy or at least freer than the general populace.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But I have seen some examples as of late of people within the queer community enforcing patriarchy onto other queer people.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Not someone from the outside enforcing it, a fellow queer person enforcing it onto fellow queer people from the inside, under the umbrella themselves. And I don't like it.
KAYLA: No, that's fair.
SARAH: So let me begin with the first example that I sent Kayla yesterday that really pissed me off.
KAYLA: Yeah, Sarah was not pleased.
SARAH: I don't know if our listeners are familiar with Subway Takes, but Subway Takes is a internet show where this guy, his name is Kareem, sits on the subway and he asks people for their hot takes. And it started out with just like asking literal strangers.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But now it's like a thing you like go on.
KAYLA: Now it's like a press tour stop.
SARAH: Yeah, it's like a press tour thing. So, the whole thing with Subway Takes is he goes, okay, what's your take? They give a short version. He immediately says, 100% agree or disagree. And then they elaborate.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, Kayla, I sent this to you. Do you remember it enough to feel that you can describe what was happening or do you want...
KAYLA: I can try.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: From what I recall, it was this woman who I'll start off by saying was an extremely gay-looking woman.
SARAH: Yes. She's visibly queer.
KAYLA: Yes, she's visibly queer, a more like masculine gay woman.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And her hot take is that men need to stop acting like women so that women start wanting to date them again and women stop dating women.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: The point was women need to stop dating women. Like, this is how she laid it out; women need to stop dating women and in order for that to happen, men need to act like men again, which I was like, that's crazy coming from someone who looks super-gay.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Only to discover moments later that she was gay.
SARAH: She is.
KAYLA: Because when she was saying that, I was like, what kind of conservative ass rhetoric is this? Like, stop the women from dating women, make men men again. Like, that is like a super conservative take.
SARAH: Yeah, I was like, is this like a MAGA black woman who like looks liberal?
KAYLA: I know, I was like, this is the gayest-looking black woman I've ever seen. Why are you speaking like this? And then it turns out it was coming from inside the house.
SARAH: Mm-hmm, yes. So, she was basically saying men should go back… Like, the caption on this, at least on Twitter, the caption is, straight men should go back to being men so many women can stop being gay. She's basically saying that men are not masculine enough.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: They're not doing enough manly stuff.
KAYLA: She literally says in the video, like, they're not building houses anymore. She's like, men used to build houses.
SARAH: Yeah. And as a result, women, like straight women, are not attracted to them. So, then they start dating lesbians, but they're not really gay, but they're dating lesbians and she, as a lesbian…
KAYLA: Wants them out.
SARAH: Is sick of the dating pool being polluted. Polluted was a word she used.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: By these women who are only dating other women because men aren't manly enough.
KAYLA: Yeah, they're not really gay.
SARAH: And Kareem agreed with this take.
KAYLA: Yeah…
SARAH: He could have pushed back, he didn’t
KAYLA: Which is crazy because as far as I know, he's a straight man.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I guess I really don't know anything about him other than he's on this show.
SARAH: Yeah, I’m pretty sure he’s straight. And I first saw this on Twitter and the comments were like…
KAYLA: Strike number one.
SARAH: And the comments were like, “what the fuck?”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, I go to Instagram because I feel like that's… I'm not sure if Instagram or TikTok is like the biggest home for Subway Takes, but like…
KAYLA: I don’t know
SARAH: It's bigger on Instagram than it is on Twitter.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: So, I go to Instagram and I look at the comments and it was just… it was a journey. There were some people being really mad, basically saying like, this is just straight up homophobia and biphobia.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like just because it's coming from a queer person, it doesn't…
KAYLA: Make it okay
SARAH: Mean it's not.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And then Kareem commented and he was like, people seem to forget that this is a comedy show. To which I say, okay, so explain why it's funny.
KAYLA: I think… because for me, it's like a tone thing, I have been known to say things like, oh, men used to go to war. Right? Like, we all say these things as a joke. To me, it's like a… it's a tone thing. Like it didn't sound like she was kidding, right? Like she sounded serious. I think there's a…
SARAH: And other people being like, oh, it's satire. It's like, okay, well, if it's so obvious to basically the entire audience that everyone is taking her seriously, then that's not good satire.
KAYLA: No, to… like, you… when you're saying things like that, you need to either be around people that know you really well. And so, know that that's not your real opinion, which like, I don't know who this woman is. Maybe she is like a very well-known celebrity. And so, the people that follow her know her vibe.
SARAH: She's a comedian, from what I can tell, her vibe is kind of this
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Like, she likes to say things that are incendiary.
KAYLA: I see. That's just not my preferred style of comedy. I applaud her for doing it as a black queer woman, really taking up the white man’s space…
SARAH: Exactly
KAYLA: Of like saying crazy things and saying you're a comedian just to get away with saying something cuckoo-crazy. Like, good on you for trailblazing and breaking the glass ceiling. But like, it's just not funny to me.
SARAH: She commented on Instagram and was like, “I stand by everything I said. If you want to talk about it, come to my show.” And people were like, that's crazy.
KAYLA: I just like… I don't… it just doesn't read as comedy. Like, you need to be like laughing while you say it or like…
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: At the end be like, no, like they're… you know.
SARAH: But like the way it was being presented, it did not seem like a joke.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: And a lot of people in the comments were basically saying like, if this is supposed to be a joke, it's not funny.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, I think you were just saying your opinion and once you realize people don't like your opinion, you're just like, oh no, it was a joke. I then went on TikTok to see what the comments on TikTok were doing. There was one comment that had like 15,000 likes that was like, this is fucking homophobic.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like, wait, what the fuck? Most of the comments on TikTok were like, oh my god, I totally agree. Anyone who disagrees isn't listening to her. And they were like, you know, she's just saying like, so many women have been traumatized by men. Like, of course they don't want to date men. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, that's not what she said.
KAYLA: No, because I agree with that.
SARAH: Yeah. She said that men are too feminine, essentially.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: That women don't want to date them. So, then they go and date women?
KAYLA: Women. And explain me that.
SARAH: Are we saying they only date masc women? Like what's...
KAYLA: Because then you get into a thing of like… and I suppose this is an interesting conversation, who is more masculine, like a butch or a feminine man?
SARAH: What makes the person masculine?
KAYLA: Yeah, what makes someone too feminine or masculine? Is it the gender they identify as or the way they act, blah, blah, blah? Okay, interesting.
SARAH: Or the way they present themselves physically.
KAYLA: But yeah, the straight up argument of like, these men are too feminine, so now women have to date men, or now women have to date women. Like that on its face just makes no sense.
SARAH: And as a woman who dates women, I'm sick of dating women who…
KAYLA: Women. I'm sick of dating women. Here's how I… I would have taken this more as a joke... or like, I don't know, I think a better point could have been made. Because to me, like… I think the reason for me it's not funny is because it sounds too similar to real things that real people are saying that is harmful.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Like these are opinions that...
SARAH: But it's not exaggerated in a way that makes it clearly satire.
KAYLA: No, it sounds exactly like what someone could say.
SARAH: You're just regurgitating these right-wing talking points.
KAYLA: Right, yeah, that's why it's not... If it was exaggerated more, or like done in a certain like overemphasized tone or whatever…
SARAH: If it was better executed, maybe.
KAYLA: Yeah, but to me, I'm like... And you could do an interesting thing, right? Of like, there's a lot of men out there in like the manosphere, looks maxing, Clavicular, whatever that fucking guy's name is.
SARAH: Clavicular.
KAYLA: Clavicular. Who are like trying to be more like macho and masculine, right?
[00:20:00]
SARAH: Uh-huh
KAYLA: It could be an interesting thing to try to like double-bluff these men and be like, you know what's actually really masculine? It is being nice to women. If you want to be so masculine, like, men used to be something, men used to be like gentlemanly and hold open doors and like be respectful.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That could have been interesting to be like, oh yeah, men aren't men anymore because men aren't kind anymore, you know? Like, we could have done something there to try to like double-bluff these men and be like, oh, gotcha, psyched, tricked you into being nice by saying you weren't being a man. Like that could have been fun.
SARAH: Yep. So, what… How is this reinforcing the patriarchy in queer communities? Let me tell you.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Let's discuss. Okay, so she's saying... First of all, she's imposing very strict gender roles. Like she's saying that like, you know, a man is supposed to be manly.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But I guess that like a butch can also be masculine, like it's...
KAYLA: But it's also fine when gay men are not masculine?
SARAH: But it's okay to be masculine…
KAYLA: As a woman?
SARAH: But it's not okay to be feminine, basically.
KAYLA: Is no one allowed to be feminine?
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: Or just the straight men can't?
SARAH: I mean, she's not giving super-femme, so...
KAYLA: But that's okay.
SARAH: Maybe she just has real beef with femininity.
KAYLA: Maybe, yeah, maybe no one... Maybe she's just like not into femininity. I mean, that's fine as a personal stance, I don't know about putting that on everyone.
SARAH: Yeah, like, maybe this would have worked at a small comedy show with exclusively queer people in the audience.
KAYLA: I also think this could have worked better had it been delivered to another queer person that maybe could have like...
SARAH: That could have played off it better.
KAYLA: Bounced, like played off of it. Because he was just like immediately like, oh yeah, I agree, men are, whatever.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Which like saying that to a straight man, like if it's a joke, you're not going to get anyone to play in the space with you really. Like, said to another queer person, maybe you could have like had more of a conversation about it...
SARAH: They could have had a conversation
KAYLA: And explained things or like made it into a funny bit. Or like exaggerated enough to make it seem like a joke.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But him immediately agreeing made it worse.
SARAH: It did
KAYLA: It didn't help with the situation.
SARAH: Because he doesn't always agree. Every time someone gives their take, he will say 100% agree or disagree. And then…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: They may change his mind by the end.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But he always comes out with yes or no.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And he did not have to come out with yes.
KAYLA: Yeah. He seemed kind of shocked though. I do wonder if he was kind of like...
SARAH: I don't know. I feel like they have to run their take, I guess, it's not like it's live.
KAYLA: I don't know.
SARAH: I don't know. But… so, then, okay, the other implication here...
KAYLA: Or maybe he's just more familiar with her work and if this is like her style of comedy or whatever, maybe he was expecting that.
SARAH: Her name is Paris Sashay, which sounds like a drag name.
KAYLA: That does sound like a drag name, that's fun.
SARAH: But… so, there's also… there's strict gender roles. There's the implication that women need men to protect them and that anyone who is more feminine, whether that's a man or a woman, is like not capable of protecting. Like, you have to be big and strong and like build a house.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Then you have the assertion that… essentially, she's saying all gay women are lying about their sexuality and polluting the community unless I personally deem that they pass my secret lesbian test.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, it's very... We've talked about this a lot now, I feel like. It's very biphobic, it's very like being mad at a bi woman or at all bi women because one bi woman left you and started dating a man after once, you know.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like, it's just very like… I don't know, a lot of biphobia that I feel like we've been seeing within queer communities lately.
SARAH: And you know what that brings me to?
KAYLA: Uh-oh.
SARAH: My next example.
KAYLA: Oh my god!
SARAH: I don't have a specific example for this, this is more just about rampant biphobia in lesbian communities that has been making noise on the internet. We've talked about it a little bit, as Kayla said, but I think the thing that I wanted to address in the context of this, of like reinforcing the patriarchy is... I mean, first of all, like purple-colored glasses, like, you're putting people in boxes and like segregating them essentially, which is like that's not...
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: That's in a lot of ways reinforcing the patriarchy, even if the boxes aren't the patriarchy's favorite boxes.
KAYLA: Sure
SARAH: But I've seen people basically hold the opinion, proudly hold the opinion that a woman being with a man or who has had sex with a man in some way makes her lesser or impure. It's like the gold star gay thing.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, you are less because you're attracted to men. And then in addition to that, there's the thought that like, oh, well, like a bi girl is just going to cheat on me with a man.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, they expect a certain level of promiscuity. How are those two things any different from slut-shaming?
KAYLA: It's a great point. The other thing I said to Sarah when… this must have spun off from our conversation about the Subway Takes thing, it is like, I think as queer people, we have a certain level of understanding of like, okay, maybe you've faced like some homophobia before or like you’ve faced a lot of self-doubt, whatever. A big thing that you should come out of your journey with is that you cannot control your sexuality, like whether you're like a born this way guy or not.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, to then put on bisexual women, like discriminate… discriminate seems, I don't know, it seems like a bit of a strong word, but discriminate against…
SARAH: I think it's accurate, if you're… okay, so if you're a person and you're like, I won't date black people…
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: That's discrimination. It's not like this particular person I don't like, therefore… it's like as a general rule, I refuse to date black people.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: If you say as a general rule, I, as a lesbian, refuse to date bisexual women.
KAYLA: No, that's fair.
SARAH: I mean, that's discrimination.
KAYLA: Yeah. But like, how is it different for you to discriminate against a bi woman because she uncontrollably is attracted to men?
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: How is that different from someone discriminating against you as a lesbian for uncontrollably being attracted to women? Like, what are you doing?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I've also seen a lot of conversations around like, I feel like it's a buzzword now, like de-centering men. And like, I just don't want to be around bi women because they aren't like de-centering men enough. Like, I need people around me…
SARAH: Neither are you, because you won't talk to people who like men.
KAYLA: That's my thing, is by having such strict rules around…
SARAH: You're making it about men.
KAYLA: De-centering men, you are bringing men back into the equation.
SARAH: Uh-huh
KAYLA: Like, if you're going to set a hard and fast rule about like, you're not de-centering men enough so I can't talk to you, it's like, well, you brought them back into it.
SARAH: Well, and de-centering men is a way of fighting the patriarchy, right? Like, being like, it's not all fucking about you. You know, we're not going to give you this power. Like, we're not just going to hand it to you by making it all about you. But it's… and we've talked about this on the podcast before, like de-centering men as a mindset is not the same as never having a relationship of any kind with any man ever again.
KAYLA: That's the thing, is it's just…
SARAH: They're half the population.
KAYLA: It's A…
SARAH: They're your neighbors, like…
KAYLA: Yeah, it's A, not sustainable. What? Are you just not going to see a man ever on the street?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: B, like, and this is difficult in this situation and I think all situations of like, in order to build the necessary bridges and have the necessary difficult conversations, you cannot… everyone cannot cut everyone off. Some people may need to do a hard cut of like, I'm never going to talk to a MAGA supporter again, I'm never going to talk to a man again, whatever. Some people need that and that's fine. We cannot afford for the future for everyone to do that, some people need to stay and be willing to stand in the middle and have a conversation.
SARAH: It's like, when you hear Democrats talking about the Democratic Party being a big tent party, where you are bringing all these different demographics in, and they don't all have the same opinions and beliefs, but they all fall under the big tent of the Democratic Party, and that's difficult. And when they talk about people who voted for Trump and bringing them in to the big tent, there are a lot of people, myself included often, who their knee-jerk reaction is to be like, how could you be so fucking stupid? Like, how could you not see that? Why did it take you so long? And like, I do get that, I do, it is often my instinct as well. But if you treat everyone like that, who shows an openness to being a part of our big tent coalition…
KAYLA: They're just going to turn around.
SARAH: They're going to turn away.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And the queer community is a big fucking tent. It is a literal umbrella. You know what a tent is? An umbrella.
KAYLA: An umbrella, with legs.
SARAH: With legs! And so, we have to have that same mindset in the queer community. The same way that like people who used to be homophobic, who it was like a protection thing.
[00:30:00]
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like, it turns out they are gay.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: We can't be like, oh, because you said this, you're not welcome here. They're obviously not welcome if they're going to continue to be homophobic.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But if they have reformed themselves and come to an understanding, like, we can't turn them away, that's not how the big tent fucking works.
KAYLA: Yeah. Which, again, is difficult because then you have these conversations around, like, well, women shouldn't have to teach men how to interact correctly. Which is true, we shouldn't, but also...
SARAH: It shouldn't be the burden of every woman, but some women will have to.
KAYLA: Right. But someone will have to, or at least give feedback. How are men going to know if they're doing better or not if we don't give them any response at all?
SARAH: And ideally, the people who do that are the ones who choose to, who volunteer to.
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: The point is that we shouldn't all be mandated to, but some people are going to have to volunteer themselves.
KAYLA: Yeah. I don't know, to me, a lot of the biphobia coming from lesbians feels just very spiteful and very revengeful. Almost like it's like you have one bad experience, maybe you did get cheated on by a bi woman and she cheated on you with a man. Or maybe there was a bi-curious girl and she was with you for a little bit and then was like, you know what, this isn't for me, whatever. Those things happen, but we can't then just put that on everyone.
SARAH: Yeah. I think spiteful is the right word because even if you haven't had an individual experience that leads you to this belief or this opinion about bi women, I think for some people, not all, but for some people, there may be a level of jealousy in that you have the option to be ‘normal,’ and I don't.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And that comes from a place of internalized homophobia.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: But I think there's a level of like, okay, well, this discrimination that we face as lesbians, you could just be with a man and turn it off and then it's not your problem anymore.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But like, it still is because they're still bi. And also, like, you can't necessarily control who you fall in love with either.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's feels… it’s very Oppression Olympics to me of like, well, our lives are harder as lesbians because we don't have the option. Or like, bi women have it easier because, like you said, you could just take the easier route or whatever.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Which is like, it's true, right? But also like, how is that conversation… is it like actually helpful?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like, what is that conversation doing for us? Or it's like, it's not even a conversation. Maybe that would be an interesting conversation to have. But it's like… because also, bi women aren't going to be interested in dating you if you're going to be nasty. So, like, of course they're only going to date men if you're rejecting them. Like, what do you want them to do?
SARAH: Men or other bi women. Like, yeah. Now you're fucking segregating the sapphic community.
KAYLA: Yeah. Now you're making the options for them even slimmer. It's like, okay, so you don't want them to date men, but you won't date them. Who are they supposed to date? Who are they going to date now?
SARAH: Who are they going to date? Yeah. I also think there are… I have a growing feeling that there is a sense of people, male or female, who are straight-up gay or straight-up lesbian, which is another word for…
KAYLA: For gay
SARAH: For women. There are some sects of those communities that are very purist.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And they're like, it's this or that, and I am that. And if you're not one of those, then you're fucking doing it wrong.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And I'm going to assign which one you are. And that is serving patriarchy because it's putting them… it's saying that there are only two ways to exist.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And I think that is concerning. I mean, there have always been issues in the community of like, biphobia and panphobia and that sort of thing. I do not like the uptick that I've seen. It seems to go hand in hand with the uptick in all of the other bad things we have seen in the past couple of years. Maybe let's think about that, what that implies.
KAYLA: Yeah. It feels very reactionary, I think. And I mean, I've… I don't know if I've said this on the podcast or not, but like, yeah, like you said, with the uptick of everything, I feel like everyone at this point is just looking for an easy thing to be upset about. Like an easy… like, this celebrity said this one little thing that now I'm going to turn into this like huge smear campaign or like this person did this one thing, which is like, okay, yeah, maybe people are doing things that aren't great, but like, also we have a dictator.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, like right now it feels like there's a lot of, it's easier to be mad at those smaller things than it is about these bigger things that are less controllable.
SARAH: I think to some extent, yes, the bigger things are less controllable, but if you organize, you can make a difference. If you organize… if you get 300,000 people to sign a petition that you don't want Taylor Swift to wear purple anymore, like, she doesn't care.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But if you get all those people together and organize for a political cause, you might make a difference
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, I think people like to complain about things that they know that they don't actually really have an impact on because then they can just keep complaining.
KAYLA: Yeah, that’s fair
SARAH: Whereas if it's like a political thing, then someone's like, okay, so what are you doing about it? And if you're not doing anything about it, then shut the fuck up.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: People like to complain.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's fair.
SARAH: Okay. This next one is a tweet I saw. It is a screenshot of a TikTok from what appears to be a trans man, just based on the… like, the hashtags and stuff.
KAYLA: I see
SARAH: I haven't been on this person's account, so I don't know for sure, but it's just a screenshot. So, obviously we're not hearing the whole discussion, what this person is saying
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But the caption on, like the words… the text on screen says, “no, the patriarchy is not the only reason why women shave, you might just be transgender.” And the person that I saw on Twitter…
KAYLA: What!? Wait, hold on.
SARAH: Well, the person's reaction on Twitter helped me understand what…
KAYLA: I was trying to figure out what that means, I feel like I'm missing something.
SARAH: Basically, how this person on Twitter has interpreted this, is by saying, if you don't like to shave as a woman, you must be a man. Like, you're just a man.
KAYLA: Hello!
SARAH: If you don't like shaving, maybe you're just a fucking man, maybe you're trans. Which, okay, maybe sometimes that's true, but like this… the person who quote, retweeted it was like, literal misogyny, like, how is that liberating? Like, women can exist without shaving. They can still be women, that doesn't make them a man.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And it's very frustrating seeing people in trans communities, in queer communities, in whatever, forcing people into specific gender roles that they think they have to go in.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like, you are serving the patriarchy. How do you not see that? It just makes me angry.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's especially concerning, I think, because… like, especially now with TikTok and how the algorithm serves, and from what I have seen from younger people, there is so much like self-diagnosing that happens, both with health, mental health, sexuality, gender, where you see something online and you're like, oh, well, I must have this.
SARAH: Wait, I can get diagnosed with a sexuality?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I can have a doctor diagnose me?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I've been self-diagnosing this whole time!
KAYLA: No, you have to have a doctor.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: But you see something and you're like, oh, well, that's…
SARAH: That was a joke for those listening, I would like to be very clear.
KAYLA: Yeah. We have to be very clear about our jokes now that we've been bitches about other people not being clear about their jokes, we can't be hypocritical now.
SARAH: In fact, we have a whole episode about how your doctor might not know anything about it.
KAYLA: It's true, we do.
SARAH: Check out our episode with Ash.
KAYLA: It's true. Anyway, it's so common to see something and be like, oh, well, that must mean that I'm this or maybe that, oh, this person is telling me… whatever. Like, I just think… like, this is another thing where I feel like in the context of this video, this person could definitely have been joking or like, speaking about their personal experience or whatever.
SARAH: Yeah, you can't generalize it.
KAYLA: But it's hard in this world that we are living in because things aren't funny anymore. Like, it's just like… I don't know.
SARAH: Yeah. So, I'm looking in the comments of this tweet about it. This one person actually went and commented on the TikTok and they said, this just proves the horseshoe theory is true, one becoming so woke that they've become conservative.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Body hair isn't fucking masculine. And then there are… whatever.
[00:40:00]
SARAH: A majority of the time, the patriarchal society of America influences women to shave. Not everyone has the same experiences as you did. You recognize that the patriarchal society demanded you as a trans person who wanted to be seen as female. Maybe this person… I don't know. Either way, you're saying, okay, shaving makes you female, perfect. Not shaving makes you male. Like, that's such an overgeneralization. This person goes, “you are so close to fucking getting it.”
KAYLA: This close!
SARAH: And then the tweet or the comment below that on the TikTok says, “this relies on the fact that you think body hair is a masculine trait. Interesting.”
KAYLA: Interesting! It also just like… it then doesn't take into account a whole other side of the patriarchy of consumerism and whiteness and pureness and cleanliness and why shaving was invented because they wanted to sell razors to women.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And like then you had rich women were like, I want to look rich and then the poor people can't afford razors, whatever. It then doesn't take into account all of the intersectional ways that patriarchy is working, not just on gender, but on race and class and ability and everything like that.
SARAH: Yeah. And how cleanliness is perceived on people of different races and how being hairy is associated with a lack of cleanliness, even though it's our literal natural state of being.
KAYLA: Yeah, it just doesn't like… I just don't think we're allowed to be funny anymore, you guys, I think jokes are over.
SARAH: Just pack it up. I saw a video recently of this woman who was talking about how she stopped shaving for a while because she was like, fucking patriarchy. And then she ultimately decided to go back to shaving, but she was like, every time I do it, I know it's the patriarchy, but I'm still choosing to. And it's like, that's the choice we want to have.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, you can still choose to do it, you have to understand the implications.
KAYLA: Yeah. Just know in your head why you're doing it.
SARAH: Yeah. And she's like, I understand why I do it, but like, I genuinely just prefer myself this way.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And you know, it is what it is.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: There's a comment replying to this person who is talking about the horseshoe theory, and they said, “I think this person is offended by the idea that womanhood could be a concept constructed in a bigoted way. Because gender expression is so personal, being told your idea of womanhood feeds into patriarchy can be very offensive to someone to transitioning to that.”
KAYLA: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
SARAH: And I think this may have been touched a little bit on the book that I read, the Woodworking by Emily St. James, where it was like… maybe it wasn't, I don't know. When you are transitioning to be a woman, to externally present yourself as what you have internally been, which is a woman, there are certain stereotypical ways to do that.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But they also don't mean anything.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman. It may help you feel more like the woman… it may help you feel like you're expressing yourself as the woman that you are, but it also doesn't fucking mean anything.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And so, people who are transitioning, I think, can sometimes lean too hard into those gender stereotypes and gender roles in a way that may feel affirming for them.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But is still feeding into patriarchy, because it's saying, this is the way that you have to be a woman, or the way that you have to be a man.
KAYLA: Yeah. I feel like I've seen people react, maybe even to past conversations of ours, if not just on the internet, of the conversation of saying, oh, gender isn't real. I feel like I have seen pushback on that, especially from genderqueer people, of being like, why would you say gender isn't real? My gender is very personal to me. Like, it is something I have worked on, it is something I'm expressing. And it's like, I'm not saying gender isn't real in that...
SARAH: I'm not saying your gender isn't real, I'm saying as an overarching concept, it's all fucking made up.
KAYLA: Right. That's the thing, it's real in that it exists, it is just not naturally-occurring, it is manmade.
SARAH: It is formulated. And that's okay. A lot of things are manmade, fucking clothes are manmade.
KAYLA: Yeah. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that it should completely go away.
SARAH: Or that it doesn't matter.
KAYLA: Yeah. It is just recognizing that these rules were made up by humans kind of just because, and they are not inherent.
SARAH: I would say clothes matter, but we did invent them.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And that's all fine.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's like the classic thing of pink used to be a boy color, and blue used to be a girl color, like way back when... Even as simple as that, it's like, look, people, we invented these colors... but I guess we didn't invent these colors, we assigned these colors meaning.
SARAH: We interpreted
KAYLA: We interpreted these colors on our own to be boy and girl. That is real because that now exists in the world, but it's also made up.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because what do you mean?
SARAH: Because it's not based in any inherent truth.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And that's part of the patriarchy, it is they will try and convince you that there is an inherent truth to these things.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: But it's like, no.
KAYLA: Like, how was I to know in the womb that pink was for me?
SARAH: You weren't.
KAYLA: That's not something you come out knowing.
SARAH: There are some people who talk about, like, maternal instincts, blah, blah, blah, whatever. But it’s like… but that doesn't mean that a woman doesn't know how to do math.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And people are like, oh, well, societies are patriarchal, therefore, it's natural. But there are also matriarchal societies.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: There may not be as many of them.
KAYLA: It's just that this white one that you live in happens to be patriarchal.
SARAH: Yeah. And I mean, if we're going to talk about patriarchal versus matriarchal, if it comes down to it, if we're going to be really basic and literal about it, if patriarchy is fighting matriarchy, men are likely to have the advantage because they're physically larger on average.
KAYLA: But they also will die out because they cannot have children.
SARAH: True. But I'm saying like, if it's 50-50, if it's like men versus women…
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: Of course, in the arc of history, you're going to see men, ‘winning more.’ (And by that I mean patriarchy versus matriarchy.) Just because of physical domination. (Because they are on average physically larger, not to say that women can't be strong as fuck, women are strong as fuck. Men just typically have the advantage of testosterone, which is a theory about why we may have ended up with more patriarchies than matriarchies on earth. That's what I was trying to say. Okay. Thanks. This has been Sarah from the future. Goodbye.)
KAYLA: I see.
SARAH: Is a theory. I don't know that that's backed by science.
KAYLA: I just couldn't say, I'm not a scientist. Not because I'm a woman, but because I hate science. That's not true, I don't hate science, I am not adept at doing science myself.
SARAH: Or do you think that because you're a woman?
KAYLA: And it's all a great question, isn't it?
SARAH: Chicken, egg.
KAYLA: Hmm.
SARAH: But my point is like, people are like, oh, well, like, oh, most societies are patriarchal. It's like, well, if it really came down to it, statistically, it makes sense that men… (when vying for social and political control and power among their community, could physically overpower any women who also sought that power. Or if they alone could not overpower a single woman because she's strong as fuck and can throw him across the river, then he could gather his other men and… you get it. Okay, this has gotten really bleak, sorry. Okay, I'm really done now. Goodbye.) Because most of them are larger than women, they have testosterone. And then they're like, oh, that means inherently they're better, no, it doesn't.
KAYLA: Yeah, it just… I mean… I don't know, in this like modern age, it's like…
SARAH: None of that fucking matters anymore
KAYLA: Maybe back in the stone age when we were fighting and killing things to eat, then it mattered who was physically bigger, but now it matters who is smarter.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So…
SARAH: And studies show…
KAYLA: And studies… and more than 50% of college graduates are women. Not that you need to go to college to be smart, but just saying
SARAH: Correct. Anyway.
KAYLA: Okay, now that we've horseshoed ourselves into saying that men are supposed to be better, let's end this.
SARAH: Yeah. To be clear, I don't… that's my brain just firing, I don't know that there's any…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Science or basis of anything behind that. If there is, I would be interested to learn about it.
[00:50:00]
SARAH: The other thing I was just going to say, which we've talked about before, so we don't need to go in detail is the gay male communities being so obsessive about top and bottom...
KAYLA: Oh yeah, I was thinking about that earlier.
SARAH: And gender roles. And we've talked about it before, I don't think we need to belabor it. Also, because I think if we want to have an episode fully about it, we should have a gay man on.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But…
KAYLA: It's there.
SARAH: Yeah. Another thing to think about.
KAYLA: Much to consider.
SARAH: So, in conclusion…
KAYLA: What are we doing!?
SARAH: Maybe let's stop enforcing patriarchy from within the queer community onto each other, because that sucks. The outside is already doing it to us. Why are we doing it to each other?
KAYLA: That's a great question.
SARAH: What do we get from that? What's the benefit?
KAYLA: Probably nothing.
SARAH: Do you feel like you're greater than because you're more pure or something? Fuck you!
KAYLA: Right. Right.
SARAH: Fuck you! Fuck your mother!
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: And your father.
KAYLA: Oh!
SARAH: Equally.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Maybe it's patriarchal to say, fuck your mother and not say, fuck your father, you know?
KAYLA: Yeah, maybe, I just couldn't say.
SARAH: Maybe that's my internalized…
KAYLA: But you're aware of it and so it's okay.
SARAH: Okay. Kayla, what's our poll for this week? I want to know other examples in queer communities of queer folks imposing the patriarchy onto one another. I would like examples, which might be a sad poll.
KAYLA: I mean, I think there could be a lot from the aspec perspective, just about like amatonormativity and how that's reinforcing it.
SARAH: Oh yeah, we didn't even touch that.
KAYLA: We didn't even touch that, the topic of the podcast, basically. But it’s fine.
SARAH: It's all the topic of the podcast.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: No, but absolutely. Like, the fact that like you have to have these relationships, you have to reproduce, you have to… It's all patriarchy, baby. It's patriarchy all the way down.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: It's also like sometimes… as a person who exists in the places on the internet that I exist, sometimes when I see people being like… talking about like, what feels like white feminism, and like, oh, women, like glass ceiling. I'm like, that feels dated to me.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But it's also all connected. And so like, even if my instinct is to be like, yes, okay, we get it, women are equal to men. First of all, not everyone everywhere believes that. And just because the bubble I'm in…
KAYLA: Yeah. I think we feel like this with a lot of things, it is like, to us, certain things are like, okay, we're so past that now, but unfortunately a lot of people are not there yet and many things have reverted
SARAH: They’ve gone back, yeah
KAYLA: So, perhaps it is time to go back to basics and just get Target to have a pride shirt, again
SARAH: Genuinely. But I also think that since patriarchy has so many different arms and so many different limbs connecting to all these things, it all impacts each other.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, he he!
KAYLA: LOL.
SARAH: Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My beef is that I just got back from a trip on Tuesday and I knew…
SARAH: Ooh!
KAYLA: Wait, no, I came back on Monday, whatever. I knew coming back was going to be tough because I always have a hard time just like transitioning back into life after a trip. And also, it is the most busy season at work and I knew I was going to come back into just a shit storm.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And I did. And so now my brain still isn't in home-mode and I'm trying to girlboss.
SARAH: In home-mode?
KAYLA: Home.
SARAH: Home-mode.
KAYLA: I don't know how helpful home-mode would be, I don't think I've ever been in home-mode in my life.
SARAH: I was like, I know you were at a music festival, but like, you were there with Dean.
KAYLA: Yeah. Dean was probably more in the home… I think Dean is more home-mode in general than I am.
SARAH: In general?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: What does that mean?
KAYLA: He just loves to dance and wiggle, I don't know.
SARAH: Okay, he likes to wiggle.
KAYLA: He just likes to wiggle. Like not in a bad way. He just likes to like...
SARAH: He's a wiggly boy.
KAYLA: He just likes to wiggle. Anyway.
SARAH: Maybe he should join Wiggles…
KAYLA: One time I saw The Wiggles live, but it wasn't The Wiggles, it was Tame Impala dressed up as The Wiggles for Halloween.
SARAH: Oh, wow! Well, I get The Wiggles on Instagram sometimes…
KAYLA: I get them too sometimes.
SARAH: You know the yellow Wiggle who she's a girl now?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: But they also have their alternate accounts. And so then sometimes I see them doing like dance covers on their personal account.
KAYLA: Oh, weird. No, no, no!
SARAH: And I'm like, that's a Wiggle. Are you allowed to do that?
KAYLA: No, it's like seeing a teacher at the grocery store.
SARAH: What!?
KAYLA: And my juice is that at the musical festival that I was at… I often, I go to these music festivals and I will know like a couple of people out of like the dozens and dozens that are on there. And then I'll show up and end up like listening to someone I didn't know and being like, “Oh my God, I really like them.” And Dean's always like, “you could have known about them before if you looked at the lineup and did your homework.”
SARAH: If you studied
KAYLA: And studied. And I'm like, “oh, I don't want to.” This year I studied a little bit as much as I could get myself to. And there was like one or two artists that I discovered or knew about more because of my studying. And then I went and saw them and I was like, “oh my god, so good.” So, I did a good job with my study.
SARAH: I just thought about how you told me like two years ago that you would listen to BTS if I made you a playlist.
KAYLA: Yes, true.
SARAH: It's too overwhelming.
KAYLA: Well, and then we did start doing our weekly music-sharing and then we fell off, so.
SARAH: And then we stopped. Um, my juice is I'm getting a haircut this weekend.
KAYLA: I feel like you're always getting a haircut.
SARAH: My last one was a while ago. I do have to get them more often now because I don't like it when my hair gets long. I can trim my bangs myself, but the rest of the hair, it gets too long.
KAYLA: I probably need a haircut because last time I got one, she did like a lot of layers and the bottom layer is not that much hair, but it's very long, so sometimes it kind of looks wild that there's just like kind of two curls that are longer than everything else.
SARAH: I see. I don't have enough hair to…
KAYLA: I could probably cut that myself though, I should stop being a little bitch about it.
SARAH: You probably could. Yeah, no, I just have to get it cut more often because if it gets too long, then it's wrong. My other juice, I guess I'm a steel mace girly now. My beef is…
KAYLA: What!?
SARAH: Steel mace. My steel mace workout?
KAYLA: Oh, I forgot about your steel mace, yes, yes.
SARAH: I did my first steel mace workout this week. My beef is my knees, they are cracking.
KAYLA: Do you think it's from lifting your steel mace?
SARAH: It's seven pounds.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: It's from weightlifting.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: It's from weightlifting weights.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: But I haven't even been weightlifting as many weights recently because my back got fucked up
KAYLA: Brother!
SARAH: So, then I was… I've been lifting less heavy trying to get my back to calm the fuck down. And… but my knees are fucked up. And then the internet was like, you should sit back more in your squats, it'll help. And so, I do, and it does help. But then it starts hurting my knees anyway. And I'm like, I bet this would be easier. It would be less like repetition on my knees if I could just… instead of doing lots, lift heavier, but I can't lift heavier because of my back.
KAYLA: Because of your back
SARAH: And my knees have been… sometimes I'm like, oh, my kneecap is going to fall out. You know?
KAYLA: You need to go to like a physical therapist or something.
SARAH: My sister told me I should see a doctor.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I don't have the right kind of doctor in LA, which means I would have to go to my PCP and ask them to give me a referral.
KAYLA: You should do that, I just feel like it's the best thing to do.
SARAH: I'm just going to try and use my under-desk elliptical to make my knees so strong.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: My knees are fucked up. And then earlier today, I saw a tweet on the internet that was, I believe originally in Spanish, but… yeah, it says the following; ‘Daily affirmations. My knee is fine. My knee doesn't hurt. I am a young woman with healthy knees. My knee pain is mental. My knee is not going to pop out.’ And I relate to that.
KAYLA: I just feel like because of your family history with knees, you should probably go to a doctor.
SARAH: And the crazy thing about my knees is that I've never like properly injured my knees before. Like, there was a while in my gymnastics years where I did have to wear a knee brace for a little bit, but I never like got an injury to my knees, like a specific thing. So, this is just…
KAYLA: You're just old.
SARAH: Hehe! I was like, if I tell my mom about all of my symptoms, do you think she could diagnose me? She's so experienced.
KAYLA: Yeah. Okay. And then what are you going to do with that diagnosis without a doctor?
SARAH: Well, then I could know if it's really bad enough that I should go to a doctor.
KAYLA: Brother! That’s so crazy. Aren't you already like well past all your premiums and deductibles and shit?
SARAH: Not my deductible.
KAYLA: You have to be almost there.
[01:00:00]
SARAH: I was thinking though, because I am already past the 7.5% of my income for my taxes to make my medical expenses tax-deductible. I was like, maybe I should do it this year so that…
KAYLA: Yeah, just do everything.
SARAH: I haven't met my insurance deductible yet, I don't think I'm going to.
KAYLA: You could if you went to the doctor. Make it a challenge now, try to meet it. If you go to enough physical therapy, you can definitely hit it, I believe.
SARAH: Well, and I'm not going to as many allergy shots anymore, so, I'm not getting my…
KAYLA: You got to make up for it. Start now!
SARAH: My twice a week allergy shot copay.
KAYLA: You got to get it in there somehow.
SARAH: Okay. You could tell us about your beef, your juice… Are you a sports medicine doctor? Can you diagnose me on our social media @soundsfakepod
KAYLA: So wild.
SARAH: I have a lot of problems; I can tell you all about them. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you'd like to support us there. You could support us there and contribute to my doctor's appointment.
KAYLA: Medical expenses
SARAH: I've got all sorts of them. And hey, my allergist, the girl, the allergist, said that she would check with the provider, but she thinks that I probably can still get a tattoo even though I get hives randomly. Heheee! I'm excited to find out the real answer. Well, not that that's not… whatever. I hope she calls me back. Our $5 patrons who we're promoting this week are Kelly, Lily, Lindsay, Lowe, and Mark Cornick. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Sydney Price, who would like to promote their Instagram @sydneyxprice. Val, who would like to promote healthy knees. Alastor, who would like to promote the podcast 'Shadows and Shenanigans.' Ani, who would like to promote the importance of being kind to yourself and others. And Arcnes, who would like to promote the Trevor Project. Our other $10 patrons are Benjamin Ybarra, Clare Olsen, Danielle Hutchinson, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, Eric, my aunt Jeannie, Johanna, Kayla's Dad, Maff, Martin Chiesl, Purple Hayes, Quartertone, Barefoot Backpacker, Song Of Storm, and that is it. Sorry, it's SongOStorm, there's no of, there’s no F. Our $15 patrons are Ace, who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer. Nathaniel White who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com. Kayla's aunt Nina, who would like to promote katemaggartart.com. And cats?
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Is aunt Nina the one with the cats?
KAYLA: Okay, listen, you guys. If any of you are in Michigan, my grandparents live like out in the middle of nowhere woods.
SARAH: The sticks
KAYLA: The sticks. And a couple of months, like several months ago now, there was a cat that they would see around their house. And then all of a sudden, there was all these babies.
SARAH: I wonder what happened.
KAYLA: I wonder what happened. And I don't quite remember how this all ended up happening. But now they're all in the house, and they have all been like fixed in spaying and have gotten their shots or whatever.
SARAH: Well, if you get them young enough, then they can be pets. It's when they get too old, then they can't be pets.
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't know. They wanted to get them fixed and all their shots, but they couldn't put them back outside immediately, and also the kittens needed to stay with the mom, whatever.
SARAH: Yeah, sure
KAYLA: Much happened.
SARAH: Now we have kittens.
KAYLA: Now we have kittens. They need to be taken care of by someone who has the time and capacity to do that, because my grandparents have other things to be dealing with. So, if you live in Michigan and you want a cat/kitten, I guess let me know, and I'll put you in contact with my aunt.
SARAH: Hit up Kayla. Incredible.
KAYLA: These cats have got to go somewhere, you guys. They can't keep doing this. There are so many of them.
SARAH: When I’ve been on Facebook Marketplace recently, I was looking… because I think Addie might like one of those big giant hamster wheels for cats, but they're expensive
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And I'm like, I don't know for sure that she would use it, so I was like, maybe I can get one off Facebook Marketplace that's like cheaper.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, I was just looking, and there were several, it was like, ‘free cat,’ and I was like…what!?
KAYLA: Whoa!
SARAH: There's one where it's like, free cat, he's one year old, here's the nice things about his personality. It's like, is that your cat?
KAYLA: Where did you get that cat?
SARAH: Or are you just giving away your cat?
KAYLA: That’s crazy
SARAH: Another one was like a kitten, so it's like, okay, yeah, you probably found this kitten, but like…
KAYLA: Yeah. Look at that cat, where did you find that?
SARAH: What!? Hello!? Our other $15 patron is Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. And that's something that the patriarchy does not fuck with, and we want to fuck with the patriarchy in the other sense of the phrase. So, we should accept that everyone is different, and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Changeling & Alex who would like to promote their company Control Alt Access (dot com). Dr. Jacki, Dragonfly, my mom, and River, who would like to promote ethical cats.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Angelical Cats.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: I was listening to that in the car.
KAYLA: Good
SARAH: Also, if there are like a bunch of wild feral cats around you, you should try and get them TNRed, which is when you trap them, and then you neuter them, and then you release them, that's what the T and the N and the R are. My cousin at her new place, there are a lot of local cats that they're having issues with
KAYLA: Hello!
SARAH: And I was like, you should see if you can get someone into TNR them, and then once they get TNRed, then you clip their ear so that you can tell…
KAYLA: You know
SARAH: Just by looking at a cat if it has been spayed or neutered.
KAYLA: I see.
SARAH: So, they can have a better life and not have a bunch of babies and cause problems. Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
SARAH: And your cats.
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