Ep 391: Why Do the Straights Hate Yearning?
SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I'm Sarah, that's me.)
KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl, (that's me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode: Yearning.
BOTH: Sounds fake, but okay.
SARAH: Welcome back to the poooood!
KAYLA: Hi!
SARAH: Hello everyone, I have some important housekeeping.
KAYLA: Yeah, Sarah was like, I have something to say, and then she was like, I'll keep it for the podcast, so I don't even know.
SARAH: I have been able to chew gently on the left side of my mouth.
KAYLA: What!?
SARAH: That's my news.
KAYLA: Right, right, right.
SARAH: The other day, I did get a little freaked out because a single mouthful of cold water did cause me a slight problem, but I'm hoping that's a fluke.
KAYLA: I feel like we could do a whole separate podcast just as long, just about your medical kind of situations.
SARAH: This is what happens when you turn 28, guys.
KAYLA: I don't feel as though this is what happened to me when I turned 28 on such a scale.
SARAH: This is what happened when you turn 28 and you have my genetic predisposition.
KAYLA: Yeah. Like it's, you know, I just feel like I have been getting more problems as I've gotten older, but not on such a...
SARAH: I just got them all at once.
KAYLA: Right. Yeah, that's true, you really did.
SARAH: So. Very charming. Do we have any actual housekeeping?
KAYLA: I was just going to ask do you have any other medical news for us?
SARAH: Not of note, no. Just the usual.
KAYLA: Just the usual. Just the usual.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Well, I don't have anything medical to share.
SARAH: Great. Kayla, what are we talking about this week and why is it the same as last week?
KAYLA: Okay. Well, we didn't really... We talked about it a little last week, but I was just like, I feel like there's more here. And then some people said some interesting things in the Discord and I was just like thinking about it. And I tried to look it up online and I didn't see, at least on Google, I'm sure people are talking about it, but I couldn't see. So, I was like, it must be us, I guess, talking about it.
SARAH: Okay, we're talking about yearning.
KAYLA: So, we're talking about yearning, again. Okay, how did this even come up last week?
SARAH: Something about...
KAYLA: I know we were talking about your friend who is currently in a yearnship.
SARAH: We were talking about... I was talking about how my friend was watching Off Campus and she's not into yearning because she's unfortunately straight.
KAYLA: Straight, yes. And we were talking about what the deal is with straight people and not being interested in yearning.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Okay. First of all, what is yearning?
SARAH: Yearning is when it's at dawn and there's…
KAYLA: Right!
SARAH: There’s like a low fog on the ground
KAYLA: Fog, yeah.
SARAH: And you're in a field.
KAYLA: There's a field there.
SARAH: And you just kind of stare longingly into the distance and you watch a bunny hop by.
KAYLA: Oh, I don't remember that part.
SARAH: I'm adding flavor.
KAYLA: Oh, sorry. Okay. Sorry. Continue.
SARAH: You watch a bunny hop by and you think, wow, I wish...
KAYLA: I wish that man in a long coat would start walking over here.
SARAH: See, but I think you can yearn without the man in a long coat having to come.
KAYLA: Right, it's kind of more of a yearn if he's not there.
SARAH: It's the infinite state of being… waiting for him to come.
KAYLA: Waiting for him to come.
SARAH: Which is why I added the color of a bunny.
KAYLA: Of the bunny, right, yeah.
SARAH: Because then you think, wow, wouldn't it be nice to be that bunny?
KAYLA: Wow, wouldn't it be nice if I could talk to that man about this bunny being here? But no one is here with me. Right.
SARAH: That's yearning.
KAYLA: That's yearning, right. That's such an interesting definition.
SARAH: I think it's accurate.
KAYLA: I suppose.
SARAH: Okay, Merriam-Webster says...
KAYLA: Merriam-Webster's dictionary says… Sarah doing… Sarah conducting my wedding.
SARAH: Imagine if I did that, but I was like, dictionary.com…
KAYLA: I would laugh.
SARAH: UrbanDictionary.com defines marriage…
KAYLA: That would be good, actually.
SARAH: Anyway, yearning is an intense, often melancholic feeling of deep longing or desire, especially for something that is out of reach or difficult to attain. It combines a powerful emotional craving with a sense of tenderness or a pining.
KAYLA: I like the melancholic, I feel like there's something to that, that’s like… it's a little sad.
SARAH: Yeah. I do think that that was Google AI really...
KAYLA: No! Why are you reading that!?
SARAH: Jeujing up Merriam-Webster, because the plain definition on Merriam-Webster is just a tender or urgent longing.
KAYLA: Oh. Urgent!?
SARAH: But I forgot to put minus AI in my search, so.
KAYLA: Well, this is what happens. Urgent. Okay, if you didn't hear the discussion last week that brought this on, as we were talking about the newer television show Off Campus…
SARAH: Boo!
KAYLA: Which, side note, I was...
SARAH: I haven't even seen it.
KAYLA: I haven't either. But I've heard… one of my friends watched it and was live texting, and she's a big Heated Rivalry guy, and she was just not very impressed. But side note...
SARAH: Kayla, did you hear they're adapting Icebreaker?
KAYLA: I did, and everyone was like, the thing we'd wanted wasn't the hockey.
SARAH: Also, everyone who has ever read that book is like…
KAYLA: I know, they say it’s bad.
SARAH: It's not even good.
KAYLA: It's not good.
SARAH: Apparently, spoilers for Icebreaker, I don't even know if they're true, I think they're mostly true. At the end, she's like going to the Olympics for figure skating…
KAYLA: Oh!
SARAH: But then she gets really nervous and she throws up, and then she finds out she's pregnant.
KAYLA: Right, of course.
SARAH: And then she figure skates at the Olympics pregnant, even though it was a thing earlier that like some other girl ruined her career that she got pregnant, and then she wins at the Olympics, and then her man wins the Stanley Cup his first year in the NHL.
KAYLA: Right. I think I've read that there's some weird body stuff in it, like eating disorder like mishandled. Because like, it could be handled very well in figure skating, you know like that's a problem that could be discussed, but I think it was not handled well.
SARAH: People have complaints about how it's handled in The Long Game, in the Heated Rivalry book.
KAYLA: That is fair. That's fair.
SARAH: So, like if…
KAYLA: That’s fair. Okay, anyway, my side-note was that my friend that watched Off Campus and was not very impressed said that one of the best parts was the music. And then I was at a concert last night, and the opener...
SARAH: G Flip.
KAYLA: Huh?
SARAH: One of the songs in Off Campus is a G Flip song, and my sister likes G Flip and has seen them live, and G Flip is a, I believe, non-binary lesbian… Australian? And they were joking about how their song was used in a straight sex scene.
KAYLA: Well, let me tell you, if you would let me continue.
SARAH: Sorry!
KAYLA: I was at a concert last night, we were there to see Daisy Grenade, I know the band.
SARAH: Yeah, I know you do.
KAYLA: And the opener was Vienna Vienna, who none of us really knew, but we were there, and we were like, holy shit, like, this opener is amazing. Because sometimes you go to a concert and the opener is like, meh, okay.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But we were like, holy shit, and then we were looking them up on Spotify after, and we were like, oh, one of their songs was used in the very last scene of Off Campus. But again, it was a very queer person, so it's just… it's funny.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But we were like, oh, slay.
SARAH: Also, why is music such a thing in Off Campus? Like, she like sings in a bar?
KAYLA: Oh, yeah, that's like a whole plot thing, is that she's a singer.
SARAH: Everyone wants everything to be a secret musical, I guess.
KAYLA: I guess, but that's like the thing in the book, she’s a singer.
SARAH: But she's like a music person, but I don't think she was… like, she's not like a vocal performance person. Isn't she like a…
KAYLA: I think she's a music major.
SARAH: Classical, whatever.
KAYLA: I don't… I just simply couldn't even begin to say.
SARAH: We're uninformed.
KAYLA: We're uninformed. Well, the thing we were discussing is… you know, a while ago, I saw a review of us that was like, I can't stand… they were talking about a specific episode. Oh, I found… okay, sorry.
SARAH: And then you make it worse.
KAYLA: I don't know what I was looking for, but I found a forum discussion somewhere by Aplatonicism, and they were talking about our episode on it, and some people really didn't like it, and that's fine. But people were like, oh, I had to read the transcript because my God, did these people… like, they never shut the fuck up at the beginning.
SARAH: Listen, we're not for everyone.
KAYLA: We're not for everyone, not even ourselves. Okay, what we were discussing was the difference between Off Campus and Heated Rivalry, both like hockey romances, which obviously there can be a lot of differences, and also like hockey romance is one of the biggest romance genres for whatever reason.
[00:10:00]
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like, it's just, even before all the Heated Rivalry stuff, it's just like a very big genre.
SARAH: Well, because Off Campus actually started production before Heated Rivalry did.
KAYLA: Oh, I didn't know that.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That must have been sad for them.
SARAH: They're doing fine, they're fine.
KAYLA: I’m sure they're fine. One of the big differences is obviously one is straight and one is queer, but in Off Campus, it's a very like, not necessarily insta-love, but like insta there is stuff happening or like insta lust.
SARAH: They're fake-dating right away.
KAYLA: Yeah, they're fake-dating right away, they're like kissing…
SARAH: And then, spoilers, she's like, I need to have practice sex with you.
KAYLA: Practice sex, yeah. So, it happens very fast, while in Heated Rivalry it takes like 10 years for them to be like, maybe I have a feeling.
SARAH: Well, they're fucking the entire time, to be clear.
KAYLA: Yeah, but it's different.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: But it's different.
SARAH: The feeling, it takes much longer for the feelings to come to the surface.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Even if they were always there.
KAYLA: Yeah. I think Off Campus happens within like a school year; this is like 10 years of these men's lives.
SARAH: This is like, imagine being in a situationship for seven years.
KAYLA: For 10 years, that's a crazy, bitch. Anyway!
SARAH: A long-distance situationship.
KAYLA: A long distance situationship with your rival. We were discussing…
SARAH: Non-monogamous.
KAYLA: All I'm trying to do is recap what we talked about last week, it's taking years.
SARAH: La la la la…
KAYLA: What we were discussing is, it seems like one of the reasons straight people love Off Campus is because of the yearning not being there. We were like, there's something about straight people not liking yearning. So, my theory was… and you also discussed your friend is currently doing a big yearn, and a lot of her straight friends are not interested in hearing about it, but her queer friends are like, give me all the tea, tell me about it.
SARAH: And to be clear, her yearn is straight, she's doing a straight yearn.
KAYLA: Which we have to commend her for. Any updates?
SARAH: Not recently, no.
KAYLA: They didn't touch hands again?
SARAH: It's a slow burn.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: She touched her shoulder two weeks ago, we need to cool down.
KAYLA: We need to cool down, right. Sorry, that's my bad. So, my theory was that perhaps yearning is just more common in the queer world because you have to spend time figuring out if the other person is also queer in certain situations…
SARAH: And if it's safe to pursue this thing.
KAYLA: Right. Or if you have to be way less upfront about things and like chill, so, that was my theory. But people had some interesting things to say about different sexualities, opinions on yearning. But before I got into that, I know we talked a little bit last week about our feelings on yearning and I wanted to hear your aspec perspective on yearning in fiction and real life.
SARAH: If I were not aspec, I would yearn forever.
KAYLA: Okay, speak more about that.
SARAH: I would never act on anything.
KAYLA: Okay, interesting.
SARAH: Do you disagree?
KAYLA: Oh, no! No! But I suppose that that is a part of yearning that I had not considered, of the reason for the yearn being a lack of ability to confront things.
SARAH: It's a lack of… it's a fear of acting.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Whether that be founded in reality or not.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But, I mean, for a long time queer… like, there was no act, you could not act on queer...
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Like queer thoughts and feelings without major consequences. So, like, you had to yearn because there was no other option.
KAYLA: Yeah. Which is part of why I think it's more common. I guess, I didn't really think about… like, I'm trying to think of examples in media of yearning. And I suppose the reason most people yearn is because of inaction for one reason or another.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: But I feel like yours is less… like, yours is more just because you are not a confrontational person in general.
SARAH: Yeah, that's just my own personal...
KAYLA: Like that's not like a romance thing or like a situational thing.
SARAH: No. I think yearning, it can certainly get annoying at a certain point where I'm like, dude, like, you just have to do something, someone has to do something.
KAYLA: Like in fiction or in real life?
SARAH: In real life.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: In fiction, I always know there's a narrative purpose.
KAYLA: That's fair. Fair.
SARAH: Real life does not have a narrative purpose.
KAYLA: Poetry.
SARAH: So, you could just yearn forever and nothing will become of it.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: So, I Googled yearning queer versus straight, I found an article on Autostraddle that's called, ‘I'm Tired of Hearing About Yearning.’
KAYLA: That's funny.
SARAH: And it's a whole thing, it's by someone named AJ. They mentioned… okay, I'm just going to read what AJ says.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: “Let’s be real, no one knows yearning like the queers. Sapphic yearning is everywhere, and even the discourse surrounding recent hit queer show Heated Rivalry has heavily centered on the yearning that often undergirds the queer experience. Queer yearning isn’t for no reason though, it is illustrative of an inability to act on our desires, on a longing for more in a world that has promised you so little, that has dangled true unabashed love above your head like forbidden fruit. And yet, I think queer yearning is powerful not because of its limitations but because of the way our very yearning has been the fuel that has helped us send wrecking balls through the old world order in favor of new ones. To me, the power of a story like Shane and Ilya’s…” from Heated Rivalry. “Is not the longing itself, is not the pain for pain’s sake, but what understanding and honoring their deepest wants eventually led them to do. In Episode 5…” spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. “The power of yearning realized. This is yearning’s strength, not in perpetual suffering, not in romanticizing queer pain, but in realizing it can be the fuel to your fight, that which gives you strength to demand a new world, to demand a space for yourself in the sport you love. And the very power of this yearning coming to fruition reverberates through queer athletes. It shows them their yearning is a weapon, a stone to sharpen their creativity and strengthen their resolve. Yearning is about possibility.” Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.”
KAYLA: That's very lovely.
SARAH: It is very nice. But I think also this this author is saying like, I'm sick of hearing about yearning for yearning’s sake, like just like longing for the aesthetic of it.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Like if you want to make a change in your life or you want something like you have to act on it at some point.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And the recent, I think, romanticization of yearning in the past couple of years, because apparently 2025 was dubbed the year of yearning.
KAYLA: Huh!
SARAH: Whatever that means.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But like this person says, I think we've become addicted to yearning, longing for longing’s sake, yearning for what we can't have without searching for the tools to achieve it. However difficult, always choosing to yearn for more instead. We're told we're in a loneliness epidemic where everyone is profoundly lonely, but somehow unable to connect to any of the lonely people around them. As many before me have said, a lack of community among us is intentional because fascists. But basically, like we're not helping ourselves by just yearning forever.
KAYLA: Yeah. That's so interesting, I have several thoughts on this.
SARAH: Tell me.
KAYLA: First of all, love it. Well, one of them is I do think it's interesting, the romanticization of yearning, because I do think that's a very real thing. Like it's very… it's like a torture. Like, oh, I'm so mysterious, I'm so whatever, like I'm yearning. And I think there's also maybe like a put-upon helplessness of like, oh, I couldn't possibly do this. Right?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: You know, there's this holding me back from it. When it's like, okay, sure, there might be very real, you know, bars to you doing this, especially in a queer sense. But like also maybe you just need to like get some social skills and some confidence and say, get it going, girl.
SARAH: You just need to take the leap and if it fails, then it fails. But at least you did it and now you're not stuck in yearning purgatory.
KAYLA: I know someone who… so, I live in Boston and we've had a lot of Scots here for the World Cup.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Yes, I've seen many people in kilts. And so, I do… I must assume there's a lot of hooking up going on downtown with the people being excited about the Scots being on here. But I have a friend who was downtown partying with the Scots and just straight up to a guy was like, so, are you going to come home with me? And he was like, no. And she got shot down real fast. But you have to respect the hustle.
SARAH: Yeah, you have to respect the hustle.
KAYLA: She put herself out there and was like, so? And he was like, no. And she's never going to see him again because he's going to go back to Scotland. So, it's fine.
SARAH: Yeah, nothing matters.
KAYLA: But you've got to love that. Anyway. So, that's one thing, I think that's very real. I also find it a very interesting perspective, though, of us being like addicted to yearning. Because thinking about yearning as I was coming into this, part of me was like, I feel like I've seen a lot of people talk online about like, where did yearning go? Like, bring back yearning. Like, we used to yearn. You know?
[00:20:00]
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And I think some of that has been a reaction to things like online dating where everything is just so fast; you find someone, you hook up, it's all very fast, whatever. Like, you think about Grindr, it's like, okay, I'm going to talk to you for two seconds, then meet you, and then it's going to be done.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So, to me, in my head, I was like, I kind of feel like yearning is gone. Like, people aren't yearning as much because you can just get what you want really fast, anything in general.
SARAH: I also think, though, that our conception of like back in the old days, what happened to yearning? There wasn't as much yearning as we thought there was. Because if you're going back to the 50s, girl, how long can you yearn before you have to get married?
KAYLA: Yeah. Well, it's also, relationships were so transactional that it’s like… I think it was much less common for a love marriage…
SARAH: Right. Like, maybe you were yearning for your best friend's husband, scandalous, but like, I don't know.
KAYLA: But I think that's maybe why there was so much yearning in fiction back then. Like, I'm thinking of Jane Austen, all her books are yearn, yearn, yearn. But they were very… The reason they were so big in their time is because that's not really how marriage was working at the time, they were a very romantic view of things that wasn't as common.
SARAH: Yes. And thinking of Pride and Prejudice as we…
KAYLA: As we stand in our field waiting for the bunny
SARAH: Started out with the bunny, who’s not canonically in that scene.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Apologies. I think also part of it is in that form of fiction, people love the yearning of that and whatever.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But they're constantly acting on things in that movie. He asks her to marry him halfway through, which is a bad fucking idea.
KAYLA: He does. He shouldn't have done that.
SARAH: But at least he's doing something, even though he can't read the fucking room.
KAYLA: He did.
SARAH: He's trying.
KAYLA: He did. And then at the end, he was like, listen, if your feelings have not changed, let me know and I'll be done with it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But like, we got… let's figure this out.
SARAH: Let's do something, yeah. So, I feel like so much of what we view of yearning is like the aesthetic of yearning and not the actuality of it.
KAYLA: The act, yeah.
SARAH: And I think… do you think queer people are actually into it more? Or do you think queer people relate to it more and see themselves in it more and therefore want to see it more in media than straight people do?
KAYLA: Mm. Yeah, I don't know, I mean, it's hard for me to say how much are people actually yearning right now, straight or queer or whatever. Because…
SARAH: And this is exclusively in the context of sex and romance, because you can fucking yearn for anything.
KAYLA: Yeah, you can year for anything.
SARAH: I yearn for a better world.
KAYLA: I yearn for the minds. I don't know, it's hard for me, it's hard to conceptualize, I think, because… like, I was just saying with online dating and everything, I think there's a very real argument for like, well, no one is yearning because you can have whatever you want with a click of a button, like you can have anything.
SARAH: But you also have situationships.
KAYLA: Right. At the same time, you have like what you were talking about in the article with the loneliness epidemic. And it's like at the same time, you can have a quick relationship at the click of a button, but it's not like always a real human connection, like a long lasting…
SARAH: It's not a deep connection, yeah.
KAYLA: Right. So, you can have things very quickly, but still yearn for something more like concrete or long term.
SARAH: Right, something that feels more meaningful.
KAYLA: Something more of a human connection rather than transactional.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Which if you want transactional, that's fine, that's just not what we're talking about.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: So, yeah, it's hard… that's kind of hard to conceptualize. And also, like, I could see the case where maybe a lot of people are yearning right now for a relationship or some sort of more human connection in general because of how like online and just disjointed things are now. But that's not the same as yearning for a specific person.
SARAH: Yeah, I think often the yearning for a partner in the sense that people do that, I think is often… I don't mean to say that people are exaggerating how much they're yearning, I think they're overweighting how much they yearn for a romantic and sexual partner versus how much they just yearn for connection in general.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And they're placing the onus on, oh, if only I had a romantic or sexual partner, this would fix everything.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But it's not…
KAYLA: Let's yearn for some friendship, maybe.
SARAH: Yeah. So, I think they're just… people are like, oh, this is the type of yearning that is acceptable.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And therefore, that is the kind I will do even though what they really want is a...
KAYLA: And I think it's just maybe less… it's less embarrassing to say I want a partner than to say I want human connection or I want a friend. Like, I think it's just more socially-acceptable to say that.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But back to your question, like, do queer people actually yearn more or do they just relate to it more and that's why they want to see it in media.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: I think that young queer people, and maybe it's not happening as much anymore, especially in like more like woke liberal places, I guess speaking for America specifically because I don't know as much the situation in other cultures. But I think it is a much more common… it's a common experience for young queer people to yearn for relationships in general and specific people. Like, I think the like homoerotic friendship with like a friend in high school of like looking back on it now, you're like, damn, that was so gay.
SARAH: Even yearning for like the ability to just be freely whatever you are and express yourself.
KAYLA: Yes. Like I do think that is more common for queer people just because when you're figuring out your queerness, you don't like know what's going on. And so, you can be like yearning for someone that you don't like understand what the feeling is.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And so, you can't act on it because you don't know what's going on. Or like, if you are a queer person in an area that is like… or a culture that is not great and you simply cannot act on it. Like, I think that just queer people just have more barriers. So, of course, they're going to be forced to yearn more if they are in situations in which they cannot act. So, I mean, I think it is more relatable to queer people. And I think…
SARAH: Is…
KAYLA: Go ahead.
SARAH: Is the act of yearning seen by the social order as a feminine act?
KAYLA: Yes. I think so.
SARAH: I agree because I…
KAYLA: I don't think men are supposed to yearn, I think everyone always tells men like you have to be… like, you have to ask the person out, like you have to go after it, you have to be dominant, whatever.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I don't think men are allowed to yearn, which is sad.
SARAH: I came across this Reddit thread that says why is there more yearning and fawning in lesbian relationships compared to straight couples?
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: And this is specifically talking about lesbians. But I think if there is a feminization of yearning, then it's more okay for gay men to do it, at least culturally or more accepted for gay men to do it.
KAYLA: That's something that someone in our Discord said about what we were talking about last week. And they said, I've never understood the idea or appeal of it, but I was in an online group for a while with a bunch of lesbians and I gathered from them that yearning is a big thing with them and I never vocalized it, but kept thinking, what are you all talking about?
SARAH: Yeah, I think… okay, this person says, I mean, it's rare, I would say for a straight man to yearn for a woman in the way that a lesbian does. Sex and desire is not yearning. Do you write poetry, love notes or love letters for women? Do you make handmade gifts? Do you plan elaborate dates that are geared towards a partner's interests? Is there a baseline of physical affection separate from sex? Cuddling, holding hands, kisses. As someone who is bi and non-binary and have dated so many different sexualities and genders, cis straight men are the least romantic overall as a whole. You guys even call men who care about their partners or treat them well or romance them simps.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's actually such a good point. I mean, yeah, I think it's just not socially acceptable for men to be romantic. And I think yearning is often a very romantic or romanticized thing.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I mean, how often do you hear a guy talk about their crush? Like, I feel like having a crush is yearning, right? Especially if it's a long-lasting crush, that like nothing is happening with. And I feel like men aren't allowed to be giggly and kick their feet about having a crush the way that women are.
SARAH: The only socially acceptable way for them to approach it is via sex.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And yearning is… as this person mentioned, sexual attraction is not really yearning.
KAYLA: Yeah, not the same.
SARAH: That's like lust.
KAYLA: Yeah.
[00:30:00]
SARAH: Like lust would be the equivalent when it comes to exclusively sex versus the whole sexual romantic tie.
KAYLA: Yeah, so sad.
SARAH: But also, like, I mean…
KAYLA: Start yearning.
SARAH: Merriam-Webster says, a tender or urgent longing. I don't really like the word tender, but in this context…
KAYLA: I do think it is correct though.
SARAH: It is correct, men are not allowed to be tender.
KAYLA: Yeah, so sad.
SARAH: Yeah. So, I think maybe part of the reason why straight people aren't as interested in yearning is because… I think a straight woman may yearn for a straight man…
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But if that straight man yearns back, that is seen as feminine?
KAYLA: Mm, like he's supposed to just do something about it.
SARAH: Right. And so, for some straight women, that would be a turnoff because they don't want a feminine man because they're straight.
KAYLA: Yeah. What of a like gay male relationship then? Is no one yearning there? But I think that's the same queer thing, though, of like we're yearning because there's an inability to act.
SARAH: Yes. Also, I think because queer men are feminized to begin with.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, like, it's socially acceptable for them to do this supposedly feminine thing. Even if people don't like it, they're like, oh, well, it's because they're gay.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It's interesting because this person says, their handle is, Have You Seen My E. Coli?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: They said, “I think partially this is also because straight relationships have all of these weird rules and social scripts associated with them. Like the whole deal with not replying too fast and not seeming too interested. So big feelings, especially at the beginning, are portrayed as uncool and inappropriate. Whereas queer relationships don't have so many roles and rules associated with them since they're still a bit outside of social scripts and expectations in general.” I think that's a good point in that it once again kind of comes back to gender roles because queer relationships don't have as clear of established roles because of the gender, fun, and shenanigans.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: They can kind of do whatever they want, we can be yearning both ways, we can have a fun yearn.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Whereas straight couples, it's like, well, the man should just ask her out. You know?
KAYLA: Just do it, yeah.
SARAH: This person says, “the easy and accurate answer is the patriarchy, but the more relevant one is pride. I think in WLW, we're very quick to just be like, oh, because men, men don't yearn, men don't love, et cetera. But to be honest, the big thing that separates how queer people versus straight people interact with each other in a dating context is just insufferable pride. No one really wants to let their feelings be broadcasted, and everyone is always on guard with each other due to this constant insufferable never-ending gender wars that make it seem like they feel guilty for liking each other. Straight men don't want to appear whipped, straight women don't want to appear like they care about a man, straight men don't want to listen to their partner's vent, straight women don't want their partners to have emotions. And above all else, they live in a cycle of resenting the system of cis heteronormativity while actively and consistently perpetuating and upholding it by caring more about whether the other is holding up their side of the deal than whether they even like each other. And because of all that, they end up in a situation where both genders are just constantly scared that any unrestricted love, yearning, or attachment can and will be used against them.”
KAYLA: Damn!
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Get their asses. I do think that's so true, though. Like, we're indoctrinated with these gender roles, and then when you see someone not holding up their end of the deal, then people are like, well, that's unattractive, or like that's not how you're supposed to do things.
SARAH: Yeah. And it's so easy to dump it all on men and be like, well, men have a… they have to swing their dick around.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But like, so many cis hetero women perpetuate this as well.
KAYLA: Oh, sure.
SARAH: And also, even those who are like feminist, they're like, well, I can't be seen publicly yearning for a man because I can't be begging for a man's attention, that's embarrassing.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's the thing. It's supposed to be the man's job to ask the woman out and do that kind of thing. But at the same time, if a woman takes on that role of being the forward one, then it's, yeah, you're going after a man, which like… is seen as not good.
SARAH: And then the man is a cuck somehow.
KAYLA: Yeah. But no, I think that's very true, I think there's a lot of women that are like, oh, he's not acting like a man. He's not taking the initiative, he's not doing whatever. So, I'm not going to be attracted to that. And that's just perpetuating the whole thing of like making it so the man has to be the one in charge. And it's like, well, what do you… do we want that or not? Like, it's tough. Oh, I was going to say, it's so interesting to me that straight people… like, I get not being as into media that you don't see as like representative of you, obviously. But to me, a lot of the reasons I like yearning or like hearing about my friends yearning is because I can't relate to it. And I'm like, oh, my God, drama. Like, fun.
SARAH: Yeah. Tea!
KAYLA: Tea! Like, to me, it is just kind of surprising to me that more straight people aren't into it as like… like, I think there's so much drama and intrigue in yearning, which is why it's been romanticized. But like in fiction, I'm just confused why we're not more… like why people aren't more into it. Like, where's the drama?
SARAH: It's a good story. Yeah, I think that's the thing that I was so frustrated with when I was just hearing about Off Campus, which again, I know that I'm being hypocritical, I have not seen it. But I think this is reflective of like a broader thing, which is that like, if people don't want yearning in their romantic stories. What is the plot?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: There are some ways you can do that. But, eww. You know?
KAYLA: Yeah, it's interesting. This reminds me of something that someone else in the discord said. Lee in the discord said, “it reminded me of a Tumblr post from probably a couple of years ago, which I now can't find basically saying, are you an aro who prefers fiction about yearning slash slow burn or an established relationship? And most people felt strongly one way or the other. The thought was that a lot of aros either enjoy the yearning part and don't care about or relate to the relationship part or interested in the relationship and not the build up to it.” And they said, “I'm personally like the former yearning is much more interesting to me.” Which is something I think we've talked about before and something I think about a lot in fiction in romance is that I think… you think about like your classic romcoms or your classic romance stories and it's all about the build up to the relationship and then they finally get together and then the movie ends. And you never know, like, do these people stay together? Like, they came together in this super-crazy way. Like, how do they then navigate the difficulties of being in a relationship together?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like, oh, these people live across the country. Are we like moving? Are we long distance? Like, what are we doing?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I think so much of that classic romance is just the build-up. And then it's… they finally get together and you just assume they live happily ever after or whatever.
SARAH: Lives happily ever after, yeah.
KAYLA: No one is as interested, it seems like, as in making the fiction about like the difficulties of then the relationship itself, which I think is what's interesting about Heated Rivalry, is then the second book is all about like, okay, you're in this relationship now, like, what the fuck are we doing?
SARAH: And so is the third book, also.
KAYLA: Right, yeah. So, it's interesting to me that behind these like insta love stories, it's like, okay, well, then the build-up is not there. But then we're also maybe not necessarily tackling the relationship either. Or maybe we are? I don't know.
SARAH: As someone who works in television and has worked on shows that are like procedural will-they/won't-they situations. You have to keep the leads apart, like, you can give the fans an inch and then yank it back because… it's funny seeing like fan reactions to episodes being like, oh, my God, I can't believe they did that. And I'm like, you can't?
KAYLA: Of course we did that.
SARAH: Because the tension is what makes it interesting.
KAYLA: Is what is interesting, yeah.
SARAH: And if you let them have it too soon you lose that sense of conflict and it's not as interesting, then it just becomes… I mean, but… I don't want to say that then it becomes fan fiction because like there are absolutely conflicts that you can have in an established relationship.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But it's a different type of conflict.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And another show that I am working on is a reboot of a previous show where it was a will-they/won't-they. And in the last episode of the previous show they like got their shit together for the first time and then the network canceled it.
KAYLA: Perfect!
SARAH: And so, when the network was like, we would like to reboot it, we had different writers pitch us takes on like what should the reboot be, because it can't just pick up where it was left off for various reasons that don't matter.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But like it has to be new. So like, pitch us your takes. And almost all of the takes were like, something happened to separate them and so, we're back to will-they/won't-they.
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And the one that we went with is the one that is the opposite of that, where it's like, okay, they're together now, let's see them face this world as a couple.
KAYLA: Yeah, let’s figure it out.
SARAH: And to me, that's less interesting because I am a yearning girly. But I think it is good and interesting that they were like, no…
KAYLA: Let's try something, yeah.
SARAH: Let's try this.
KAYLA: I think it's such a double-edged sword for me because I love a will-they/won't-they in a procedural like that. Like, you know, you're Jim and Pam in The Office or like you're Leslie and Ben, whatever. Or like I used to watch NCIS growing up and there are so many that are like that, like the whole…
SARAH: On Bones, you had your Booth on Bones.
KAYLA: Bones, yeah. And so, I like, you know… I love that. And then you do… it does become different once they finally get together. Like, it's just that same…
SARAH: Like you're so excited when it finally happens…
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But then afterwards…
KAYLA: There's not as much to look forward to.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But at the same time, I always get so annoyed, especially in movie franchises, where like I think of like National Treasure, right? Like, they get together in the end. And then the second movie picks up and it's like, ugh, they had this terrible breakup.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: And then the second movie is the exact same formula as the first, where then by the end, they get back together. And to me, that's just so lazy.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So that's the thing is like, yeah, maybe it's less exciting, but at the same time, it feels so lazy that we're just relying on the same thing over and over and over again.
SARAH: Yeah. I also fucking hate a love triangle.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: My one boss is always trying to make everything a love triangle. And I'm like, girl. Well, and that's in the current season of the show that I work on, Wild Cards, that has already aired, so, this is not super-secret.
KAYLA: So, it's fine.
SARAH: It becomes a love triangle, and a lot of fans were really mad about it.
KAYLA: That's funny.
SARAH: And I was like, I understand.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I didn't really want this either.
KAYLA: I tried to tell them.
SARAH: But bear in mind, this is a procedural bode, won't they show?
KAYLA: Yeah, we have to keep…
SARAH: I think you're going to get what you want eventually.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I actually know exactly what happens in all of season four because it's already shot and edited. And I've seen it and it's good.
KAYLA: It's going to be okay.
SARAH: I can't tell you anything that happens.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But it's going to be okay.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I got distracted by that. What was happening? What was I saying?
KAYLA: You were saying you don't like a love triangle, because I was saying it's lazy.
SARAH: Oh, I was going to… Can you believe this? 2026, I'm going to bring up Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
KAYLA: I was thinking about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, I've been waiting for you to bring it up, to be honest.
SARAH: Because listen, this show is old enough, this is not a spoiler. We were so mad in season three when Jemma Simmons went to the alien planet and there was a fucking man there.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: People were so mad about that. I was extremely mad. However…
KAYLA: It worked!
SARAH: From a plot standpoint… Also, she thought she was never coming back to Earth.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like, she thought she was stuck there for the rest of her life, so.
KAYLA: What are you going to do?
SARAH: What are you going to do?
KAYLA: Keep yearning?
SARAH: Angst. Will, his name’s Will. But honestly, I think Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. did a pretty good job because they… Fitzsimmons got together in season four.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And they... I still haven't seen the last season.
KAYLA: That's so crazy, it was so your hyper fixation for so long.
SARAH: At some point, I will eventually do it.
KAYLA: So wild.
SARAH: Honestly, I'll probably need to rewatch the last couple of seasons because one through five, I was locked the fuck in.
KAYLA: I recall.
SARAH: But six, I don't remember.
KAYLA: When you go back, will you give me recaps like you used to?
SARAH: Sure.
KAYLA: I need to watch it through you. That's the thing is I also don't know what happened because you didn't watch it and so then I didn't watch it from you.
SARAH: Well, I know the most important thing that happens.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: For me personally.
KAYLA: It's just that I...
SARAH: Which is that my ship gets married.
KAYLA: Right. So, it's all fine. But it's just like when you're not watching it, I'm not watching it.
SARAH: But they did a good job of still having drama between them. But that was also partially because Fitz, there was an alternate Fitz and he was evil.
KAYLA: Classic!
SARAH: And, you know? You know?
KAYLA: But to me, I think there are very interesting things about them facing things as a couple. And I also think… I don't know, it would just be a good way to show positive examples of relationships and conflict resolution in media, which we just don't have and people need because people are out here being crazy.
SARAH: Yeah. Also, I don't know if this really has any impact on it, but the showrunners of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. were a married couple. So, I don't know if that influenced the way that they wanted to tell the stories.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But it is an interesting factoid.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Have we yearned enough? Do you have anything else you want to say about yearning?
KAYLA: I think we have. And see, you were worried we couldn't do a whole episode. I feel like I could keep going forever.
SARAH: I was. But we shouldn't yearn forever.
KAYLA: We shouldn't yearn forever, we should act.
SARAH: As AJ said on autostraddle.com.
KAYLA: Indeed. It reminds me of… okay, one last thing and then we can be done.
SARAH: One more thing.
KAYLA: And thinking about this, I was thinking about like the last time I yearned was like before Dean and I like started dating.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And I remember… like it's like fun, right? Like you have a crush and whatever. It's the whole buildup and like it's all like nervous and whatever. But I also remember feeling so tortured. Like there was times I was like, I feel ill because I'm like, I like this person so much. And like, what if they don't? And whatever. I was like, I feel…
SARAH: Why are you looking at people's LinkedIn in the backseat of my car?
KAYLA: Eww! That man was… that weird man was messaging me on LinkedIn. That man was being a creep in my LinkedIn messages. We had to discuss it.
SARAH: And we had to discuss it with the boy you have a crush on in the backseat of my car.
KAYLA: It was funny. I was in the front seat. He was in the backseat.
SARAH: He was in the backseat.
KAYLA: I was shotgun. I was keeping us entertained.
SARAH: I was falling asleep…
KAYLA: You were unwell. We took her out of the driver's seat because that… But I was trying to keep you awake and entertained. I was trying to keep you awake and entertained.
SARAH: Thank you.
KAYLA: But anyway. I remember then getting deeper into our relationship and then talking about this with other friends who then like got into their first long term relationships of like, oh, it's so different. Like things feel so much less like exciting and like amped up in that way of like… like the not having a crush ever again or like that kind of thing.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Which I remember like…
SARAH: Like passing the honeymoon.
KAYLA: Yes, like passing the honeymoon period. Which I remember feeling as a loss of like, oh, I might like never have that again. But at the same time, I was like, that shit sucks.
SARAH: Yeah, it sounds horrible.
KAYLA: Like it doesn't… It wasn't like… like, eww
SARAH: Like the highs are high, but the lows are looooow!
KAYLA: The lows are low, yeah. So, it's just… it's just interesting.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And now I'll be done.
SARAH: Kayla, what's our poll for this week?
KAYLA: Thoughts on yearning? Do you like it?
SARAH: We already asked that.
KAYLA: Well, what the fuck else am I supposed to ask?
SARAH: Hey, are y'all yearning?
KAYLA: Y'all yearning out here?
SARAH: What are you yearning for?
KAYLA: Good.
SARAH: Is it people? Is it concepts?
KAYLA: Places? Is it things?
SARAH: Is it other forms of nouns?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Is it...
KAYLA: Verbs?
SARAH: Is it something that's probably unattainable? For example, world peace.
KAYLA: Hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
SARAH: You know?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I yearn for… now let me finish this sentence.
KAYLA: Okay, I'm scared now.
SARAH: I don't want to get cut off at the beginning and have it misunderstood.
KAYLA: Okay, I'll wait.
SARAH: I yearn for recently minted trillionaire Elon Musk to give away all of his fucking money.
KAYLA: Well, were you worried about the cutoff after Elon Musk?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I don't think I would have cut you off, but it's good to make sure. Yeah, that's a fair thing to yearn for.
SARAH: He has so much money you can't spend it, but he could fucking solve homelessness in America.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: With like...
KAYLA: Not even all of it.
SARAH: Pocket change.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: For him. Anyway. We'll have a poll of some sort. Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My beef is I'm so dry. I'm so dry, my throat is so dry. I think it's because of all the air conditioning, but it's just so dry in there. And a cough, there's nothing to cough, it's just dry.
SARAH: Mm, not good.
KAYLA: My juice is, I got my nails done on Monday, as I'm allowed to do.
SARAH: Aww!
KAYLA: And...
SARAH: I saw them on Instagram.
KAYLA: I know you already saw them. But they look like olives, and the red part of the middle of the pit of the olive is like bumpy, and so it's fun to like… I have a fidget on each finger, very fun.
SARAH: Did you just like roll up and be like, give me olives?
KAYLA: Well, I had a… I saw a picture… I had seen… a bunch of stuff was coming up on my TikTok of like fun summer nail inspo, and I saw, this is the picture I showed the lady, olives. And I said, I like olives, that's fun.
[00:50:00]
SARAH: Next time you should do pickles.
KAYLA: Okay, I literally was like, because I was… because my friend was like, do you like martinis? And I was like, no, I like olives, I love brine. And I was like, I wonder about a pickle nail…
SARAH: I love brine.
KAYLA: That's what I told her. In the nail salon, I was just screaming across the nail salon. There was a mother and daughter there between us. And I was like, I love brine.
SARAH: You would love my father's brine bucket.
KAYLA: Probably. So, I literally mentioned pickles, but I think pickles, when you really look at them are kind of ugly. Like it's a very wiggly situation.
SARAH: You add a lot of texture to them.
KAYLA: And so, I think that would look bad, so.
SARAH: If you never try, you'll never know.
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: Stuck in reverse and the tears stream down your face.
KAYLA: I'll yearn for the pickle nails forever, I'll never have them.
SARAH: Incredible. I've been in a pickle era.
KAYLA: Love that.
SARAH: And by that I mean I have occasionally bought some gherkins.
KAYLA: Occasionally. I got a video of my nephew eating pickles the other day, it’s very exciting.
SARAH: What kind of pickles?
KAYLA: That's a good question. Ones without eggs, because he can't eat eggs.
SARAH: Pickles don't usually have eggs.
KAYLA: But it's something we must consider and watch out for, because he cannot be eating an egg.
SARAH: Okay. Well, was that your beef and your juice?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay. My juice is three-day weekends, every weekend should be a three-day weekend.
KAYLA: So good.
SARAH: And if you disagree, you're a narc.
KAYLA: Uh-huh.
SARAH: I did just got an email from my landlord being like, hey, there's an HVAC person coming on Friday. Are you going to be there?
KAYLA: Eww!
SARAH: Luckily, I will be, because it's a three-day weekend.
KAYLA: Because it's a three-day weekend.
SARAH: My other juice is that I cleaned my house, and I think it might have fixed me.
KAYLA: Wow!
SARAH: It's still a little TBD, there is some evidence thus far, but there are other… not exponents.
KAYLA: Ex...
SARAH: There are other variables.
KAYLA: That's the pickle in question. Does that help?
SARAH: Mm. So, it looks like a perhaps a dill pickle of some sort.
KAYLA: Indeed. We also have some sausage maybe and some green beans.
SARAH: Hold on. I need to write that down in my word retrieval failures. Look at the forehead on that kid. Me too.
KAYLA: He's a little... The hair is not great.
SARAH: That’s… Can I see it again?
KAYLA: I lost it.
SARAH: That's what my hair looks like.
KAYLA: It's very... It's mullet-esque at this time. It's kind of like mohawk into a mullet. We're missing a lot of the sides.
SARAH: You know I… my sister's best friend's child has also a crazy hair situation, that they don't want to cut it because he's still really young.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And it's kind of a comb-over.
KAYLA: Nice, good. This is a picture of a cat that sometimes comes to my parents' yard sitting in their flower box.
SARAH: Aww, that’s fun. What did I say exponent and then ratio for?
KAYLA: I think it’s…
SARAH: Variable.
KAYLA: Variable.
SARAH: Anyway, there are some other variables that I have to consider, but I'll keep you up to date.
KAYLA: Thank you. On your science.
SARAH: My beef is that when I'm putting mascara on, there is a spot on my left eyelid that I 100% of the time get mascara on. Like, for my whole life, this has always been happening. I don't even know how it's happening, so, I don't know how to fix it.
KAYLA: Do you think you have like a bump?
SARAH: Here's the confounding thing; it's not up higher on my...
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: It's on my eyelid where eyeliner would go.
KAYLA: Do you think there's a bump?
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: Do you think it's higher than the rest of your eyelids?
SARAH: And I used to...
KAYLA: I'm feeling my eyelids.
SARAH: I used to put mascara on both sides of my...
KAYLA: Lashes?
SARAH: Lashes. And so, like it makes more sense for that to happen when I did that, but I don't do that as much anymore.
KAYLA: I think maybe it's just higher than the rest of your eyelids.
SARAH: But even then, it's on the inside of my eye.
KAYLA: I don't know.
SARAH: I don't understand.
KAYLA: Oh, it gets on your inner… like your waterline?
SARAH: No, like right here.
KAYLA: Oh. That would be crazy. Yeah, I don't know about all that.
SARAH: Where you would be putting eyeliner. So, when I do, on occasion, wear eyeliner, it's fine, because I just cover it up with the eyeliner.
KAYLA: That's tough.
SARAH: Anyway, that's my beef. Tell us about your beef, your juice, what my problem with my eyeliner, my… no, mascara application is on our social media @soundsfakepod. We have a new $2 patron, it's Seastone.
KAYLA: Hi!
SARAH: That’s the first new patron in a while because…
KAYLA: Because why would you do that? Why would you do that!?
SARAH: So, thank you, Seastone, for joining. We don't really know why you're here, but we appreciate you nonetheless. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Vince Terranova, Vishakh, Vocalanesthesia, Alexander and Alma. Or maybe Elma? Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Alastor, who would like to promote the podcast, 'Shadows and Shenanigans.' Ani, who would like to promote the importance of being kind to yourself, and others. Arcnes, who would like to promote the Trevor Project. And Benjamin Ybarra, who would like to promote Tabletop Games. Our other $10 patrons are Clare Olsen, Danielle Hutchinson, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, Eric, my aunt Jeannie, Johanna, Kayla's dad, Maff, Martin Chiesl, Purple Hayes, Quartertone, Barefoot Backpacker, SongOStorm, Sydney Price, and Val. Our $15 patrons are Ace, who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer. Nathaniel White, who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com. Kayla’s aunt Nina, who would like to promote katemaggartart.com. And Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Changeling & Alex, who would like to promote their company, ControlAltAccess (dot com), and Dr. Jacki, Dragonfly, my mom, and River, who would like to promote the fact that I did all of those patrons without stumbling.
KAYLA: You really did.
SARAH: It was a little slower than usual. Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]