Ep 14: Virginity
Listen to Ep 14: Virginity here!
(0:00)
SARAH: Hey what's up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I'm Sarah. That is me.)
KAYLA: ...and a straight girl (that's me, Kayla).
SARAH: talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, virginity.
ALL: Sounds fake, but okay.
KAYLA: We're back!
SARAH: After a week of sadness...
KAYLA: And death!
SARAH: ...and death. Actually I... well the reason we didn't do one last week is because I was at a wedding.
KAYLA: The gayest of weddings.
SARAH: So like that’s not sad.
KAYLA: That was exciting. But there was a lot of homework and tests and essays last week so.
SARAH: Oh yeah. A lot of sleep deprivation.
KAYLA: Yeah. A lot of Sarah sleeping not in her bed, just anywhere that wasn't her bed.
SARAH: Yup. I think I made up for it today when I accidentally slept for 12 hours, though.
KAYLA: You sure did. I woke you up before I went to class, I woke you up when I came back to class.
SARAH: (laughs) To class?
KAYLA: To class!
SARAH: Oh okay. Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: Virginity is NOT real!
SARAH: This is true.
KAYLA: Shocking!
SARAH: Tell me more.
KAYLA: Well virginity is a social construct, it is often used as an insult, it is just made into such a big deal and I'm over it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Uh that's it, that's the end. Bye!
SARAH: Bye! Thanks for listening
KAYLA: Thanks for listening. Do we also want... I know it's been a while, we've gotten some new listeners...
SARAH: We have!
KAYLA: Hey Finland! So do you wanna maybe go over what ace is?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: For the people.
SARAH: Yeah. So for those who may not be super familiar, who may be new...
KAYLA: Just a recap.
SARAH: If you're not new or already familiar, you can skip this part...
KAYLA: Don't though, it'll probably... don't. Don't.
SARAH: (laughs) Asexuality is if people are asexual, they are people who do not feel sexual attraction to anyone of any gender. If you're aromantic, it's the same thing but without romantic attraction. The ace umbrella is a big one and there are lots of different sexualities under it but that's the gist.
KAYLA: I'm a straight lady, I'm probably a demi straight lady, I feel like I've come to that conclusion recently.
SARAH: Which means what?
KAYLA: Which means that I am not sexually attracted to someone until I am like emotionally bonded with them.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: Yes. So I've come to the conclusion lately that I think - I do think that's true which is... don't know how I feel about it but there it is.
SARAH: Oh.
KAYLA: Anyway, virginity!
SARAH: Virginity. Kayla.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Tell me about it.
KAYLA: You know what's weird? Is I've heard the term born-again virgin, which I've heard it mean two ways. Either it's been so long since you've had sex that you're basically a virgin again.
SARAH: Oh?
KAYLA: Because it's just like you haven't done it in a while and maybe you only did it once and it's been 2 years.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So you're like a born-again virgin because you're all like awkward and you don't know how to sex again.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: I've also heard it as someone just deciding that they were going to purify themselves...
SARAH: How?
KAYLA: And they're like... they just decided. It was some religious person, they just were like "I'm cleansed now."
SARAH: Just cause they decided to be?
KAYLA: Yes, that is what I heard.
SARAH: Interesting.
KAYLA: So it's the... if you can do that, then how is virginity real? If I can just decide... if I can just decide all of a sudden like "you know what? I'm a virgin again. It's been, you know, however long and (stumbles over words) it's fine." Like what? Ehhhh?
SARAH: Yeah. Because a lot of people, they think that quote on quote popping someone's cherry is...
KAYLA: (gagging noise)
SARAH: ...like proof that virginity is real. But that's just not at all...
KAYLA: Well that's the thing like there's the myth that there's this layer of skin in the vageen and the uterus that actually does get popped or severed the first time you have sex.
SARAH: Yeah but that's...
KAYLA: You can... I think I've heard - I could be so scientifically incorrect and please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just a simple liberal arts major - that the skin does exist but it can literally be broken by anything. Like horseback riding.
SARAH: Right. It can be broken by anything and it can also not be broken the first time you have sex.
KAYLA: Or ever.
SARAH: Or ever!
KAYLA: Like you can just put in a tampon and like...
SARAH: Right. Well, that's why some people think that if you wear tampons you're losing your virginity.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's why people are like (gasp) "oh, you're not a virgin anymore because you used a fucking cotton swab up your vagina!" (laughter) Like bitch I don't think I was having sex with that tampon, ma'am! Yeah.
SARAH: Would they also consider a pap smear making you lose your virginity?
KAYLA: I like don't even want to know what a pap smear is at that point. I don't know. Like does that mean that going to a gynecologist is a sexual experience, then? If putting in a tampon is sex, then what the fuck is my gynecologist doing?
(5:00)
SARAH: Do they have to have male gynecologists then so that it's not gay?
KAYLA: Can't be gay. But do they marry their gynecologist first do you think?
SARAH: Your husband has to be your gynecologist.
KAYLA: Your husband is your...
SARAH: I don't like that at all, that made really uncomfortable.
KAYLA: (disgusted noise) Um yeah. I don't. I don't, you know?
SARAH: Yeah. But it's such this big thing in our culture about virginity being such a big deal.
KAYLA: Yeah and it's like "oh my god you're still a virgin??" Or like "oh I lost my virginity at this age." It's like ehhhhh.
SARAH: Right. Or like losing your virginity but also taking someone else's virginity is a thing and I don't understand why.
KAYLA: Yeah. I don't even know if this is true, but it's just said that some guys are like "I really wanna take this girl's virginity." It's like a pride thing. And it's like (deep sigh) first of all, what the fuck? Second of all, I feel as though I'd rather have sex with someone that has experience.
SARAH: Same!
KAYLA: Really?
SARAH: I mean not that I would want to have sex with anyone, but if I were I would definitely want it to be with someone who like...
KAYLA: I feel like obviously, I as a person am not choosing my sexual partners based on their sexual experience because um that's not what I'm doing. But I suppose if I had a choice of how sexually experienced my partner was, I think I would rather them have something than being like "alright, gonna do this for this first time."
SARAH: Right. And then also if you're both quote on quote virgins when you first have sex...
KAYLA: How do you know what to do??
SARAH: ...are you taking each other's virginity? How does that work? But also, that phrasing is so interesting...
KAYLA: Just taking it! It's yours!
SARAH: Yeah, it implies that it's something that can be owned.
KAYLA: Ooo you know what's my least favorite? When people are like (annoying voice) "he took my flower." Have you never heard that?
SARAH: What the fuck?!
KAYLA: They're like (annoying voice) "I'm saving my rose or my flower." And it's like that makes The Bachelorette so much different.
SARAH: (laughs) Oh no. I hate that.
KAYLA: Yeah, me too.
SARAH: No but it's just like you're... my water just exploded.
KAYLA: Sarah we're on my bed! Oh my gooddd!
SARAH: (laughing) I don't know how that happened.
KAYLA: Send prayers.
SARAH: Sorry world.
KAYLA: One like equals one prayer. Like this episode to pray for me.
SARAH: (laughs) To pray for Kayla's bed that's all wet. And my leg that's all wet.
KAYLA: It's like I peed everywhere!
SARAH: Anyway... I forgot I got distracted by my exploding water. Butttt... what was I saying?
KAYLA: Taking it.
SARAH: Yeah okay, that implies that virginity is like a good that can be exchanged.
KAYLA: What if I like... Oh, I was just going to say what if I sold my virginity and then I was like...
SARAH: That's prostitution!
KAYLA: ...I'd be a prostitute if I did that. Also, it's too late, it's gone.
SARAH: (laughs) Byeee.
KAYLA: Byee virignityyyy.
SARAH: But also just like that... I think a lot of it is also just sexism and misogyny and it's generally guys saying they're taking someone's virginity.
KAYLA: Right because here's the... We've talked about this before, I forget what episode I'm sorry, but how gay sex, and especially lesbian sex since there's not traditionally penetration or that's not all it is, is have I sexed then?
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: Or if you perform... had oral sex before you had penetration sex, which one of those is your virginity?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I dunno.
SARAH: It's stupid. It doesn't matter but also that's a good question.
KAYLA: Cause they're both types of... it's oral sex. So it's a type of sex, but which one is my virginity?
SARAH: Exactly. And also the idea that by losing your virginity... like some people are like "oh you're losing a part of yourself. Or like you're..."
KAYLA: You're not!
SARAH: And it's like no you're not.
KAYLA: You're not.
SARAH: You participated in a physical act that people do.
KAYLA: Just an activity.
SARAH: It's just a thing to spend time on.
KAYLA: It's like "oh I went to the movies for the first time."
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Lost it.
SARAH: Lost that movie virginity. It'll never be the same.
KAYLA: Never be the same.
SARAH: You'll never be the same.
KAYLA: Forever changed. (laughter) Really big deal.
SARAH: And that's stupid. Nothing about you fundamentally changes just because...
KAYLA: Literally after having sex for the first time, I was like (long pause)... Like I'm not saying it was bad, but like it just didn't like...
SARAH: Kayla's just struggling.
KAYLA: I'm just struggling! It's not like (gasp) "oh I'm finally a woman!" Or like... We just had sex! Like there was just a penis!
SARAH: It's just a thing!
KAYLA: I dunno it's just a penis!
SARAH: And I think that might be different for people who's first sexual encounter is sexual assault, I don't want to take away from the effects of that.
KAYLA: Oh yeah that's no. That's a whole other issue. Right, of course.
SARAH: But if we're talking about first-time consensual sex, nothing changes.
KAYLA: Obviously your relationship changes.
SARAH: Your relationship might change.
(10:00)
KAYLA: Any different level of physicality, I think things change in your relationship. And obviously, there is trust involved when you're having sex with someone no matter if sex is a big deal to you or not because it is something. Like you're letting someone see you fully naked, that's just an intimate thing. And like so it is something, and it changes your relationship for sure, but (mumbling).
SARAH: It doesn't fundamentally change anything about you as a person.
KAYLA: No. As a person, no. (stumbling over words) Yeah, not...
SARAH: I'm also, as a person who's not interested in the sex...
KAYLA: She doesn't want it at all!
SARAH: The sex.
KAYLA: THE sex.
SARAH: It really frustrates me when people use virginity as a joke or as an insult.
KAYLA: Or insult, yeah.
SARAH: Because there are people like comedians or people who I really respect and I like as people who have insulted people by calling them a virgin and that's really frustrating to me because...
KAYLA: Yeah, the more we've talked, we've talked about this before, the more I've noticed it now.
SARAH: Yeah, because it's this idea that if you don't have sex you're somehow lesser. And it's this weird dichotomy between the two of like "oh my god you lost your virginity?"
KAYLA: You slut!
SARAH: "You're a slut, you're not as... you've lost some part of you as a person."
KAYLA: Not pure, yeah...
SARAH: But then there's this other camp that's being like "well you're not an adult until you have sex" or like.
KAYLA: You know what's interesting, though? Is I feel like I've most often heard virgin as an insult towards guys. So it is this another double standard. Like one of the biggest times I noticed it was... I forget, where was the protest where the men had the tiki torches?
SARAH: The white supremacist in Charlottesville I think?
KAYLA: Charlottesville I think? It's really terrible that there's been so many things that I can't remember it, but I remember seeing people tweet about the males that were part of this white supremacist protest and they were like insulting them like "oh they look so stupid, they're in their white polos and they have their tiki torches." One of the things I saw was like "oh, a bunch of virgins." Which is like (sigh) I don't know! Because it's like on some level I hope they're virgins because I hope that no woman or man has been like "mmm yes, this white supremacist is for me!" But like it's (sigh) I don't know. In a way, it's an insult as in like "no one likes you enough to have sex with you." But also that's ehhhh they just don't have friends! You could just say they don't have friends!
SARAH: Like you assume that this person, that sex is something that all people should want and that all people do what.
KAYLA: And that is has a value that's high to everyone.
SARAH: Yeah. And that's just not true. And this kind of goes along with the same thing I see all the time people being like "oh all teenagers have sexual urges and all people..." That's just not true!
KAYLA: (dramatic gasp) I was talking to someone the other day about... I was talking about how I wanted these two people that were freshman to date and I was like "oh they'd be cute together like I'd like them to date." And this person was like "oh so you just want them to fuck?"
SARAH: No!
KAYLA: And I was like no, I want them to date. Can I not separate romantic and sexual attraction? And they were like "well yeah, but you're talking about a bunch of freshmen that just got to college, you know they're probably all like super want to have sex." And I was like I have a fundamental issue with that because you know maybe they do, and I think it is a common experience for a lot of freshmen to come to college and drink and have sex for the first time cause they're away from their parents. And I do think that's not uncommon, but I have a fundamental issue with people being like, especially being like, all men are super sex-driven and super horny and they just want girls to have sex. Like I have conversations and arguments with my dad about this all the time cause he'll constantly be like "well I'm a guy and I remember being that age and it's always this way." And it's like it's not that way for every man.
SARAH: That's your personal experience.
KAYLA: Like I know ace men, I know demi men. Like not all men are super horny all the time!
SARAH: Like I could say the same thing and be like "well no one much have any sexual urges at all because that's what I experience so that must be what everyone else experiences."
KAYLA: And people would get so mad if you said that. They'd be like "are you kidding me?"
SARAH: Exactly, yeah.
KAYLA: That's one of my least favorite.
SARAH: That's also just an issue with our culture. It's not just about sex, it's not just about sexuality. In a lot of areas, it's like people are considering that other people might have another experience. And that's just a whole shebang.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Haha, bang.
KAYLA: Ha! Sex.
SARAH: But yeah, I have a fundamental issue with people using virgin as an insult just because they view someone who is quote on quote a virgin as that's automatically a bad thing.
KAYLA: Yeah. And not even just virginity, I've made jokes in front of other people that don't know your sexuality I've been like "oh Sarah has no exes and she'll never have one!"
SARAH: Yeah as a joke.
KAYLA: As a joke just because we'll be talking about our exes or our romantic experience and Sarah just is kind of like sitting there like mehhh.
SARAH: (laughs) Yeah.
KAYLA: And so I'll say something like that and people will be like "oh that's rude of you to say that Sarah will never have an ex. Like oh, why would you say that?" And it's like...
SARAH: And I can understand on one hand like I appreciate that they're defending my honor, but also...
KAYLA: But that's just assuming that you want that.
SARAH: That is assuming that I want that.
KAYLA: And you don't.
SARAH: Yeah. And I think most people do assume that all people want that because a lot of people just do not know that asexuality is real.
(15:00)
KAYLA: A lot of people just don't even think to consider that someone wouldn't... Because even people that don't like long-term relationships, usually when you meet someone it's like "oh, I don't want a serious relationship right now." Usually, they're still interested in something is something you often see. You less often see or hear, because I think a lot of ace people probably just... I mean why would you talk... I don't know. It's not something that as easily comes up in conversation as someone saying they're casually dating. Like you can't easily, as easily, say that in conversation because it's just not how conversations go.
SARAH: Right. And people are just uneducated.
KAYLA: They are.
SARAH: I was gonna say stupid but that's not necessarily true.
KAYLA: They're not stupid, they just like...
SARAH: I think a lot of times it's just being uneducated.
KAYLA: ...they need to listen to our podcast!
SARAH: Yes!
KAYLA: Is all I'm saying.
SARAH: Invite all your friends! Have a listening party!
KAYLA: (fancy voice) Yesss!
SARAH: Talk about virginity and how it's not real. And I think, okay...
KAYLA: (laughs) Have a tea party.
SARAH: (laughs) I don't mean to say that... cause for some people having sex for the first time is a big event and it is...
KAYLA: And that's fine!
SARAH: ...a big thing for them. But I think the... it's important to think about the fact that it might be a big thing for you because of personal reasons, but there's not anything inherently big or inherently important about having sex for the first time.
KAYLA: Right. No, it's like how maybe like your first kiss could be really important to someone. Or your first serious relationship or the first any... the first of any kind for anything, you can see being either very important or not very important to different people based on how they experience things. And so for me, having sex for the first time was a big deal because I had never been that physical with someone before and it was just like... it was also a big deal because I had had a lot of with birth control in the past and I think I talked about that in another episode. How I had a lot of issues, so finally getting that all worked out and being like "okay, this can happen now," it was a big deal because to me... but also like I said, after the first time I had sex I wasn't like "I'm a new woman!"
SARAH: Yeah exactly.
KAYLA: So it wasn't like... it wasn't the sex itself that was the big deal, it was that it was like "ah, first time for everything. First times of things are exciting."
SARAH: Exactly. And I think a lot of people just place so much weight on it. Like a lot of people are like - I think this is happening less and less - but people being like "oh I'm waiting until marriage." And it's like that's your prerogative, I'm not gonna judge you...
KAYLA: Like if you wanna wait till marriage go for it.
SARAH: ...for waiting until marriage, but I think that does place a weird amount of importance on your first time and a very... a lot of importance on this concept of virginity, which I believe is not real. And I understand the reason someone might want to wait until marriage, and there's a lot of reasons, but I'm thinking more of the religious ones of saving yourself.
KAYLA: Cause I think that is most often yes, saving yourself is something I think you hear often.
SARAH: Yeah and I think - I mean that's your prerogative - I just I disagree with it on a fundamental level because of this idea of well if you're saving yourself for someone, that implies that that person is taking something away from you. And that implies that you are a fundamentally different person before and after you have sex, which I just don't agree with.
KAYLA: It's just like nothing changes.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like I said, your relationship dynamic changes as it would when you get to a first anything in your relationship. (stumbles over words)
SARAH: I think it would be really interesting to talk to someone who did wait until marriage for religious regions. Regions? (laughs) For religious reasons and see if they, not necessarily if they regretted it, but if they felt like it really made a difference that they waited.
KAYLA: You know what was interesting, there was these vloggers, I think the one guy is a vlogger, I don't know. They're internet people that recently got married. I think they might have started on Vine. But they are two very religious people. The woman had been married before and had kids and the guy had not and they had not had sex yet, they were saving themselves for marriage and they were very open about that. And after they got married, the guy made a series of tweets explicitly being like "oh yeah we had sex, and oh look at this picture of me buying condoms cause we can have sex cause we're married."
SARAH: That's so weird.
KAYLA: But it was very weird because they're, first of all, grown adults, older than us, and he's acting like a 14-year-old in my opinion. He's like (bro voice) "oh broooo I just had sex for the first time whatttt?" And it was just like... it was weird because the way he was talking about it, it did place this huge importance on it. It was like "oh my god Twitter followers look, me and my wife just had sex for the first time and it was great like woah." But if you hadn't been saving yourself for marriage, then like would it... why? It's not something you share.
SARAH: Exactly. It's just this huge importance placed on it. And that just reminded me of The Lonely Island song "I Just Had Sex," which I find hilarious. That is a great song.
KAYLA: I sent that to you after the first time I had sex because you told me to.
SARAH: Yeah I did (laughs). And I think that song is really funny but I think part of the reason I find that song to be really funny is because it's satirizing that whole idea of...
KAYLA: Oh my god I had sex!
SARAH: ...placing so much importance on sex. Yeah. And so it's just like the guy is like "oh I called my mom afterwards!" and like (laughs).
(20:00)
KAYLA: It's such a big deal, yeah.
SARAH: I don't know it's a weird thing to me. Also, I think the kind of weird, uncomfortable thing about waiting until marriage is everyone knows when your first time is or roughly when your first time is.
KAYLA: No I know. Cause they're like "ooo the honeymoon!"
SARAH: Or like wedding night or if not then like the honeymoon.
KAYLA: That's why the wedding night is such a thing, people like "oohhh the wedding night!" And it's like first of all, I'm assuming that after a wedding you're super tired because you were doing something all day. I don't know that I would want to have...
SARAH: Weddings are stressful. I would just want to go straight to bed.
KAYLA: ...anything to do with a penis. I'd be like I'll see your penis tomorrow maybe. I'm just gonna take a nap.
SARAH: Yeah, tired.
KAYLA: See that tomorrow.
SARAH: (laughs) Oh man. I know back many, many moons ago, I don't remember, this is some royal family, I don't remember what country it was. But their thing was like...
KAYLA: Oh yeah.
SARAH: ...how on the wedding night other people...
KAYLA: You have to watch.
SARAH: You have to like... other people would be in the room!
KAYLA: And they would have to watch. But then that would...
SARAH: To make sure that they did it.
KAYLA: To make sure that they did it and also if it seemed like the woman wasn't a virgin, that'd be a problem.
SARAH: Yeah to check.
KAYLA: So if the woman wasn't a virgin, she had to act like this was the first time she'd had sex.
SARAH: Yeah. Like what the fuck.
KAYLA: What is that?
SARAH: What the fuck.
KAYLA: I don't want anyone watching me have sex. Especially it'd be like the kid's relatives, I'm assuming.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: And I don't want (mumbles).
SARAH: That's so uncomfortable.
KAYLA: Would you get turned on?
SARAH: And weird.
KAYLA: How is... I... do you?
SARAH: I think in a lot of those situations it wasn't necessarily about the sexual attraction, Kayla.
KAYLA: I'm not saying... But for a man and a woman to have sex, the guy's penis has to be hard. (laughs)
SARAH: It has to be. Yeah.
KAYLA: It makes things very difficult. So the girl probably wasn't because she isn't... girls' pleasure doesn't matter in sex, right?
SARAH: Right!
KAYLA: Whattt?! But he would have to be, at some point, excited about it. (laughs)
SARAH: Yeah but like if he was a virgin and he supposedly is so obsessed with sex as all men clearly are.
KAYLA: Maybe he would see a tit and be like "hell yeah I don't care that my dad's here!" (laughter)
SARAH: Oh man.
KAYLA: Oh no.
SARAH: I was going to say what if they were ace but then... Okay here's the thing with ace people.
KAYLA: Here it is.
SARAH: Your body still works.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like all of the things involved in the sex, for the majority of ace people, obviously not all because there are some non-ace people who also have issues with this, but it all works correctly. So I guess if you do it right you could make it happen even if you weren't...
KAYLA: Well it's like how there's sex-positive ace people.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: Which we'll talk about in a future episode, but it's like your clitoris still works.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: Like you can get it to work.
SARAH: You can get it to happen but...
KAYLA: It's like how... so I am probably demi straight and so I'm not sexually attracted to someone until I'm emotionally invested in them. That doesn't mean that if I had sex with someone that it wouldn't work and I wouldn't get turned on. I just don't wanna.
SARAH: (laughs) Exactly.
KAYLA: Just not feeling it, you know?
SARAH: Not wanting that right now.
KAYLA: Which is also interesting because I've talked to people about how I'm not really into hookup culture because obviously, that doesn't really work for me if I just meet someone.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: And I feel like people often think it's for moral reason that I don't wanna have sex with people so quickly. And it's interesting because I'll try to explain to people like I don't care about virginity it's a social construct. But it's interesting that it's often morals and religion that are paired with the virginity thing in either side.
SARAH: And I think that's why like it's really all about the double standard. For women, losing your virginity is like you're losing something, you're losing it. Like there's some part being lost.
KAYLA: But guys...
SARAH: But for guys, it's like the insult thing. It's like it's a right of passage.
KAYLA: Yeah it's a pride thing to lose your virginity. It's like if you haven't at this age what the hell are you doing? How have you not had sex yet?
SARAH: Yeah and so it's just sexism.
KAYLA: There she is.
SARAH: Misogyny. The patriarchy.
KAYLA: Mmm gimmie those words.
SARAH: Mhm they all suck.
KAYLA: They're there, yeah.
SARAH: Yup! Do you have anything else to add to that, Kayla?
KAYLA: I don't know. How long have we been talking?
SARAH: 771 measures. Just (laughs)... so guys when we record this it's not by minutes because I just do it on Garage Band.
KAYLA: We're very, first of all, we're very professional.
SARAH: We're really professional. I'm sure there's a way to change this...
KAYLA: Oh I'm sure there is.
SARAH: ...I just don't know how.
KAYLA: We just have never tried.
SARAH: And so it's by measures at 120 bpm (laughs). So we always forget to look at what time it is when we start recording, so we just don't eyeball it by measures.
(25:00)
KAYLA: You texted someone at the beginning, you could see when you sent that text!
SARAH: I did text someone at the beginning. I sent that text at... I won't go.
KAYLA: Ope well then we lost it.
SARAH: Either way, virginity is stupid and it's a social construct. If we didn't have this idea of virginity, life would be so much easier just for a lot of people. Because a lot of people just put so much weight on it.
KAYLA: But it's such an old concept. Like I was watching a Buzzfeed video this morning about how Ben Franklin was probably in a sex cult.
SARAH: Oh!
KAYLA: (laughs) Which you should find, it's a good - it was a funny video. You should, first of all, just watch it. But they were talking about this sex cult he was in, in the house that the sex cult had sex in, they had a library full of 17th-century porn. And so they had the people in the video read excerpts from it (laughs).
SARAH: Oh god!
KAYLA: They weren't that bad, it was nothing compared to what we read, like mile-high club porn, that we read. But there was stuff about, there was something about, this guy in the porn thing was like "oh I'm gonna keep this sheet cause it's stained with your virgin blood and I'm gonna keep it as a trophy."
SARAH: Oh my god.
KAYLA: First of all, disgusting keeping sex things as trophies. First of all, ya nasty. Second of all, that's another like "ooo the virgin blood." And it's like not all people bleed the first time they have sex, and some people bleed more than the first time that they have sex, ma'am. Sir, you're inserting a penis like what do you expect? Not blood? No.
SARAH: Yeah. You know what else I found out?
KAYLA: What'd you learn?
SARAH: You know when you hear stuff like old like magic spells and stuff where they're like "we need virgin blood" or whatever. So it turns out, that doesn't mean the blood of a virgin.
KAYLA: Ohhhh.
SARAH: It means blood that has never touched air before.
KAYLA: What the hell. My whole life has just been a lie!
SARAH: I know! But most people do interpret it as the blood of a virgin.
KAYLA: But it's also like, I forget what religion it is, but you die and go to heaven, you get your 72 virgins or whatever.
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: You've never heard that?
SARAH: No!
KAYLA: I'll Google it. I forget what religion it is, but it's like heaven is like you chillin' on a cloud with your fucking castle or whatever and you get 72 virgin women.
SARAH: To just take their virginity?
KAYLA: I'll look it up.
SARAH; So you get to have sex 72 times and then not anymore?
KAYLA: Okay, I think it's Islamic. Maybe Persian? Yeah, it's in the Quran. Oh Quran, what are you doing? So it's an aspect of paradise, so it describes a "central paradise where believing men are rewarded and being wed to virgins with full-grown, swelling, and pear-shaped breasts."
SARAH: Oh my god.
KAYLA: (laughs) "Conversely, women are only provided with one man and they will be satisfied with him."
SARAH: Oh my god!
KAYLA: Yet another example of how women's pleasure is just tossed out the window.
SARAH: I mean I'm kind of impressed that they get one man at all.
KAYLA: That is actually quite surprising.
SARAH: Also where do the virgins come from?
KAYLA: I'm looking. "Paradise as a slave market where there will be no buy and sale, but if any man will wish to have sexual intercourse with a woman, he will do it at once."
SARAH: (laughs) At once!
KAYLA: At once! Oooo the perpetual virgins... (laughs) why do I always end up reading this disgusting shit? "The perpetual virgins will all have appetizing vaginas and the penis of the elected (laughs) never softens, the erection is eternal." That's in the Quaran?! Oh no. Oh no, that's not in the Quaran that was someone talking. But it was talking about the Quaran, though.
SARAH: Either way. That is incredible. Did you say that the women are eternal virgins?
KAYLA: The perpetual virgins.
SARAH: Okay, that doesn't make sense. If virginity is a thing that can only be taken away once...
KAYLA: Then why do I get it back?!
SARAH: ...how can you be a perpetual (stumbles over words)? Where's my? I want my virginity and I want it now!
KAYLA: Here's my question, what do I have to do to get my virginity back?
SARAH: Do you want it back?
KAYLA: No, because it's not real.
SARAH: Because it's not real.
KAYLA: But I'm asking what do I have to do?
SARAH: You have to sacrifice another virgin.
KAYLA: (laughs) Good. There's some people I hate, I don't know if they're virgins though, so.
SARAH: You gotta find out.
KAYLA: Damnit. Gotta find a virgin that I hate.
SARAH: But also there's no fucking way to prove virginity. And the supposed way is about your hymen or whatever. That's just not real.
KAYLA: It's just not real.
SARAH: It's just not true. Ughh it's stupid.
KAYLA: "The marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh."
SARAH: Oh.
KAYLA: That's just apparently supposed to tell you how great they are.
SARAH: Okay well.
KAYLA: Recently I've been reading Celtic mythology for a class and they are very obsessed with sex and there was a queen in the one story we were reading about literally called Meb, or whatever, of The Friendly Thighs.
SARAH: Wow!
KAYLA: And she refers to her own thighs as friendly.
SARAH: As friendly.
KAYLA: And my professor like looked at us and said this.
SARAH: Oh my god (laughs).
(30:00)
KAYLA: This old Scandinavian woman looked at me and talked about men having sex with horses and this lady with the friendly thighs and I said Maria, I don't think I signed up for this.
SARAH: (laughs) But you did.
KAYLA: I did but I didn't mean to.
SARAH: Incredible.
KAYLA: Oh they are "untouched, with hymen unbroken by sexual intercourse" so there's that again. "Virgins, full-breasted..."
SARAH: I hate that.
KAYLA: "...breasts not inclined to hang..."
SARAH: (laughs)
KAYLA: So they're straight up! How did...
SARAH: They're filled with helium!
KAYLA: Ahhh. And "their vaginas are appetizing. They are chaste, restraining in their glances, and have modest gazes."
SARAH: Mmm one more thing.
KAYLA: "They're pure. Non-menstruating, non-urinating, non-defecating, and child-free?!" Where can I sign up?
SARAH: Honestly, that'd be great.
KAYLA: But also what the fuck.
SARAH: Yeah that's weird. Sounds like you're talking about a robot. Are they talking about robots?
KAYLA: "Never dissatisfied." Why does it even matter if they're never dissatisfied? Well they're faking it, obviously. "Will sing praise." Fake!
SARAH: Mmmkay. No but okay, also the idea that like...
KAYLA: "Virgins are raisins?" I'm very sorry, I just keep reading this Wikipedia page about 72 virgins.
SARAH: Kayla.
KAYLA: I'm listening.
SARAH: Okay I remember a couple years ago I saw a tweet that was...
KAYLA: Congrats!
SARAH: ...you know when they made the transition, Apple made the transition, from the different charger to the smaller charger? There was a picture someone took of one of the ones...
KAYLA: Oh no, I can imagine what you're saying.
SARAH: ...of an old one. Yeah. Of an old one with the larger hole for the charger and then the new charger stuck in it. And it was like "when your girl claims to be a virgin." Bitch, that is not how it works!
KAYLA: It's not... it does stretch.
SARAH: It does but...
KAYLA: But not like that.
SARAH: ...okay, it gets back smaller again after it does the stretch, and also if it is supposedly a quote on quote bigger hole, that is because the woman is turned on.
KAYLA: Yeah, your vagina hole actually gets wider when you're turned on. So if she tight you're doing it wrong! (laughs)
SARAH: Yeah if she tight that doesn't mean she's a virgin, it means...
ALL: You suck!
KAYLA: It means you suck and you're not touching the right places probably.
SARAH: But it's just so many people, like a lot of people, really do believe that. Women believe that!
KAYLA: And it is partly true.
SARAH; It's a little bit true but not really very true at all.
KAYLA: Well it's like after you have kids, obviously your vagina is a bit stretched out.
SARAH: Is it really?
KAYLA: Yes. You pushed a head through your...
SARAH: Yeah I guess.
KAYLA: ...clit. (laughs) Not really.
SARAH: Through your clit? Kayla, that's not how that works.
KAYLA: The clitoris opens.
SARAH: That makes me so uncomfortable!
KAYLA: (laughs) Sarah is so displeased.
SARAH: (laughs) That's just not true!
KAYLA: It isn't, I take it back. Learn your sex-ed, kids.
SARAH: You're misinforming. Stop misinforming.
KAYLA: Anyway so yeah, they get 72 virgins. Oh, there's actually not a specified number I guess. I guess we'll just go with 72.
SARAH: Okay. Can I just have like 72 dogs? Or friends? Wait do the 72 virgins just hang out with them?
KAYLA: "Ever erect penises." I think they're just there and when you want them you...
SARAH: Oh my god wait, you know what this sounds like?
KAYLA: I wanna know.
SARAH: Playbor Mansion. (laughs) Playbor. Playboy Mansion.
KAYLA: Oh they're just there.
SARAH: No after he died...
KAYLA: Oh my god did you read the article?
SARAH: I read about the Playboy Mansion and that is disgusting.
KAYLA: It's disgusting. Yeah, I read...there's this woman that wrote a book, she used to be a Playboy Bunny and she wrote a book. And she also... I think there was a Buzzfeed article that I read with a lot of her quotes and it was (disgusted noise).
SARAH: Yeah. Even just in there, the mansion itself was disgusting.
KAYLA: Just disgusting. They weren't allowed to have outside jobs or friends.
SARAH: I know. And it's like that was another thing that really frustrated me because a lot of people that I follow on titter... Titter? (laughs) A lot of people who I follow on Twitter who I really respect were like "oh RIP" and I'm like what the fuck are you talking about?
KAYLA: Why? He was a creep.
SARAH: Yeah. (sighs) I can't. I can't even remember his name right now
KAYLA: Hugh Heffner.
SARAH: Hugh Heffner.
KAYLA: So these men had their "ever-erect penises and the sexual strength to satisfy 100." Doubtful. They're faking it.
SARAH: So they receive the strength when they go to heaven?
KAYLA: I guess. What's the point at that point?
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: Do they just spend all their heaven days satisfying, quotes, women?
SARAH: I don't think they're satisfying anyone, they're satisfying themselves.
KAYLA: Right, so they're saying that they're satisfying all these 72 virgins whenever they have sex.
SARAH: Does that make them feel nice? Does that make them feel powerful?
KAYLA: (sighs) They're faking it (laughs). That's all.
SARAH: Also... oh man.
KAYLA: We took many turns.
SARAH: Wait I have more things to say.
KAYLA: Great.
(35:00)
SARAH: A lot of issues that sometimes people in the ace community face is corrective rape where they're like "oh it just means that you've never had sex or you've never had sex with the right person." And that's another thing about virginity. Also, a lot of sexual assault cases supposedly taking someone’s virginity in the situation that is sexual assault, it's a power move. Because a lot of times that what rape is is it's just a power move. But also just the idea that taking someone's virginity, supposedly, makes you powerful is just another issue with the way we think about it.
KAYLA: It makes it all... it's like you have this hold over someone. And it's like... what? What is so powerful about that?
SARAH: Yeah. Nothing!
KAYLA: It's not like the first friend I ever or the first boyfriend I ever had. Like that doesn't give that person special power. So why should my first sexual encounter give you that?
SARAH: Yup.
KAYLA: Yeah no, the whole thing about "oh you've just never had sex, you don't know."
SARAH: Or you've never had the right kind of sex or.
KAYLA: Well then it's like how do you know you're straight if you've never had gay sex then?
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: Like that just gets into a whole other thing of who the fuck do you think you are? Ma'am, sir.
SARAH: Yup. Alright, Kayla.
KAYLA: Dad?
SARAH: It's time for the poll.
KAYLA: Oh nooo!
SARAH: This week's poll...
KAYLA: Oh you have it.
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: I'm hoping it will come to me.
KAYLA: What will you sell for your virginity? (laughs) That's like not very topical for most of our audience, I don't think. I don't know, maybe you guys have sex.
SARAH: Which aspect of that description of the 72 virgins do you hate more? The...
KAYLA: How are we gonna word this? This is gonna be a very weirdly worded tweet.
SARAH: The swollen breasts.
KAYLA: I don't wanna tweet this. I don't like this one.
SARAH: (laughs) It's the only thing I can think of.
KAYLA: I don't like it.
SARAH: Oh wait okay. When you go to heaven, instead of having 72 virgins...
KAYLA: What do you want 72 of?
SARAH: ...what do you want 72 of? Cows.
KAYLA: Cows. Wendy's. (laughs) 72 Wendy’s.
SARAH: (laughs) 72 different Wendy's locations.
KAYLA: I want Wendy's so bad.
SARAH: This is just calling back to all of our previous episodes. Okay 72 cows, 72 entire Wendy's stores.
KAYLA: Wendy's franchises. What else can we throwback to? Should I look at some old polls?
SARAH: Oh no that'll take too long.
KAYLA: I agree.
SARAH: 72 just dollars (laughs).
KAYLA: That's nothing! Also is there currency in heaven do you think?
SARAH: I don't know. What currency do they use? Do you have to buy and sell or can you just have?
KAYLA: (laughs) What if your virgins are your currency?
SARAH: (laughs) Oh no!
KAYLA: That's really awful.
SARAH: I think in heaven you can just take stuff cause there's probably unlimited resources.
KAYLA: Yeah I feel like that would be accurate.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Um okay 72 Mountain Dews.
SARAH: Why?
KAYLA: Cause I like Mountain Dew (laughs).
SARAH: Imagine drinking 72 Mountain Dews in one day.
KAYLA: Easy.
SARAH: No but imagine how you would...
KAYLA: Gross.
SARAH: You would freak the fuck out
KAYLA: I'd be everywhere. I have gotten like drank too much caffeine one time and my heart went really fast and I almost passed out (laughter). I like got - I started sweating a lot and I had to lay down. That has happened.
SARAH: How much caffeine did you have?
KAYLA: It like wasn't even - maybe I just hadn't eaten enough that day cause it wasn't even that much.
SARAH: Amazing. Well given that story we're now going to include 72 Mountain Dews. So your options are...
KAYLA: When you get to heaven...
ALL: ...instead of your 72 virgins...
KAYLA: ...what would you like 72 of?
SARAH: ...what would you want? 72 cows, 72 Wendy's franchise stores, 72 just dollars, or whatever currency you have where you're from. So if you're from Mexico that's nothing.
KAYLA: Worse.
SARAH: Yeah that's horrible.
KAYLA: We're very sorry.
SARAH: Yeah. And 72 Mountain Dews.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH; I'm really torn between cows and Wendy's.
KAYLA: Wendy's.
SARAH: Can I have like 71 cows and 1 Wendy's. I don't think that's an option.
KAYLA: I don't think it is either.
SARAH: Damn.
KAYLA: We don't have enough room for that.
SARAH: Well let us know. You can find that poll on our Twitter @soundsfakepod. You can email us soundsfakepod@gmail.com.
KAYLA: You could email us some things we didn't include that you would like 72 of.
SARAH: Yeah that'd be great.
KAYLA: Email us telling us what you want.
SARAH: Email us telling us how your day was.
KAYLA: I wanna know. I've recently learned that I only have 6 friends and I'd like to make some more so please email us.
SARAH: You have more than 6 friends.
KAYLA: I have 6 close friends and I would like to make some more please email me.
SARAH: It would be very overwhelming to have a lot of close friends, Kayla.
KAYLA: Yeah we talked about this how I don't want 10 male suitors.
SARAH: Imagine being close friends with all 72 virgins. Like that'd be really difficult.
KAYLA: There would be so much drama. Can you imagine how much drama there is probably between those 72 virgins? It'd be like The Bachelorette but...
SARAH: They probably don't give a shit though.
KAYLA: Oh you’re so right cause they're (annoying voice) so satisfied!
SARAH: And also...
KAYLA: But also they don't wanna be there anyway.
SARAH: They don't wanna be there. Anyway...
KAYLA: Ooo (gasp) idea! They're all lesbians, so most of the time they're just having sex with each other, and then once in a while there's this guy and they're like ugh whatever.
(40:00)
SARAH: Who's gonna do it today?
KAYLA: And then they just bear it and fake it cause it's easy. And then they just go and have sex with each other. They're like "yessss!"
SARAH: Do they get anything out of this? Is this prostitution or is this sexual assault?
KAYLA: Yeah I don't think they get anything out of it. They get to live but also they're in heaven anyway. Are these angels? I am also confused about where these virgins come from? Are they just like...
SARAH: Do they have wings?
KAYLA: Do they just pop out?
SARAH: I don't know. I was also confused.
KAYLA: Anyway. If you know where the 72 virgins come from please email us, I'm very interested.
SARAH: Yeah please let us know.
KAYLA: I want to know if they need help.
SARAH: Yeah. Where can they listen to us? As if they don't... I don't know why we do this every week. But Kayla...
KAYLA: You can find us on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher Radio, and anywhere else you can find podcasts. Share us with your friends.
SARAH: We also...
KAYLA: Leave us a review.
SARAH: Yeah. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod where if you're a patron you can help vote on our topics. This week we voted but it had been so long since we'd voted that we only had one vote. We don't know who it was, but you made this decision.
KAYLA: But they decided! You made it happen, my guy.
SARAH: So our Patreon patrons are for our $5 we have Jennifer Smart who is Lehen Productions we've learned.
KAYLA: We've learned.
SARAH: On Youtube...
KAYLA: Lovely Jennifer.
SARAH: Yeah. There's some cool stuff, Jennifer's super nice.
KAYLA: I love Jennifer so much. Except Jennifer I'm calling you out, you follow Sarah on Twitter and not me, and honestly like I'm offended, Jennifer. Like I love you and it's fine you don't have to follow me I'm not forcing you, but I kind of am cause now I'm calling you out. Like what the fuck Jennifer.
SARAH: Listen, for once in my life I'm the one that people like better, Kayla!
KAYLA: Yeah I think that at some point we're gonna do a poll about who's your favorite, Kayla or Sarah? But I keep not wanting to do it because I know the answer and I'm already sad.
SARAH: Listen, usually I'm not the favorite I just gotta embrace it.
KAYLA: Yeah, this is the one time you're the favorite out of the two of us.
SARAH: I know. Listen, my Twitter is good.
KAYLA: It's like not though.
SARAH: Last night I tweeted right before I went to bed and I woke up and it had 4 likes and a retweet. Not 4, 14 likes.
KAYLA: I, for the record, didn't even see that tweet. I was busy.
SARAH: Cool. Well, additionally we have Asritha. Asritha is advertising her existence I think still?
KAYLA: Yeah she's doing great.
SARAH: She Instagrammed yesterday and she asked us for advice and I gave her the mediocre caption that she used.
KAYLA: Yeah. Her Instagram is private but you can request and I'm sure she'll let you follow her.
SARAH: Her Insta is @asritha_v, that's at A-S-R-I-T-H-A underscore V. Then in our $10 patron section we have Emma. Emma is @emmatfink on Twitter and Instagram. At E-M-M-A-T-F-I-N-K. She's also advertising her existence.
KAYLA: She has a cute cat. She likes lipstick.
SARAH: Yeah she recently got a cat.
KAYLA: If you like the makeup, would recommend her face to look at.
SARAH: Mhm. Or if you like cats.
KAYLA: Or if you like cats.
SARAH: Alright that's all.
KAYLA: Um also we have a Tumblr.
SARAH: Oh we do! I keep forgetting.
KAYLA: Yeah soundsfakepod.tumblr.com we've been posting some things I'm trying...
SARAH: And by we, we mean Kayla.
KAYLA: Kayla. Which is fun because most of it doesn't apply to me but I reblog it anyway, which is probably not okay but that's fine.
SARAH: My life is a mess. I haven't even been using my own Tumblr.
KAYLA: Yeah so follow us there. You can send us asks, that would be super fun. Or just reblog our podcast and share them with your friends!
SARAH: Yeah! Um thank you for listening and tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears. Next Sunday is the Sunday following Thanksgiving, but we will be having a pod for you Americans.
KAYLA: We will be pre-recording, we're making a turkey tomorrow, and then we're having another Thanksgiving and we are some domestic ladies.
SARAH: Yup!
KAYLA: We're not. Um yeah. Until then, take good care of your cows.