Ep 16: Sex Positive Asexuality
*NOTE: This episode does not reflect our current (2020) views and understanding of sex-favorable/sex-positive asexuality. We have learned and grown a lot since 2017. For updated and more accurate information, you can check out Ep 150: Sex-Repulsed vs. Sex-Averse.
SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a straight girl (that’s me, Kayla)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: sex positive asexuality.
BOTH: — Sounds fake, but okay.
*Intro music*
KAYLA: Welcome back to this place.
SARAH: Here we are. So the episode this week is an episode that we have many, many times –
KAYLA: Oh my God, it was literally at the top of our list of ideas. It was the first thing that we were like, mmm yes, good topic and then we never did it.
SARAH: Right, and then this is something that we have mentioned in other episodes many times –
KAYLA: Basically all of them, probably.
SARAH: That we're going to talk about this at some point and it’s finally time.
KAYLA: It's happening.
SARAH: It is time to talk about sex positive asexuality.
KAYLA: Because I just, I really have a hard time wrapping my head around it. Like obviously I know it's not fake and I respect people that are like that, but as someone that doesn't experience that, I have a very hard time putting myself in those shoes and understanding how that could – I just don't get it.
SARAH: Right. So how I'm going to explain it is the way I understand it. Some people have slightly different definitions.
KAYLA: Well, are you sex positive?
SARAH: We'll get there.
KAYLA: Okay, I’m just saying, so if you're not it would be an outside perspective too, from both of us.
SARAH: Well, sort of, but – I'll explain. All people, regardless of their sexual orientation have differing thoughts and opinions on sex. And there's a whole range, there's a whole spectrum of how people feel about sex. So one straight person could be really into it and want to be doing it all the time, and another straight person could be like, eh, it's okay, I'll do it sometimes. There's always that spectrum regardless of what your sexuality is.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: And so for people who are asexual, that spectrum still exists for us. There are some people on the ace spectrum – So when you think of someone who's asexual, how would you imagine they think about sex?
KAYLA: I would imagine since they're not sexually attracted to anyone that they just like, wouldn't be interested.
SARAH: Okay, because that is the assumption of a lot of people and that is true of a lot of ace people, but there's still a spectrum there. That's like the middle of the spectrum right? People who just aren't really interested. But then on the other end of that, there are people who don't experience sexual attraction, but they are interested in the actual act of sex.
KAYLA: Like the feeling?
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Now there are many reasons why a person would do that, or not do that. If you aren't aromantic and you're in a romantic relationship with someone, and your partner isn't ace, you may choose to have sex with them like, for them.
Some people who are ace though, just like choose to have sex because they want to. They might have one-night stands, they might just decide to have sex with people because – They're not necessarily sexually attracted to them, they might be aesthetically attracted to them, they might just be like, I want to fuck you.
So they can make that choice to do that, even though they don't experience sexual attraction to that person. Because as we mentioned before, your body still works, you can still do it.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Does that part of it make sense?
KAYLA: Yeah, it's starting to make more sense. I guess for me I'm just equating it to – Because I think of myself as perhaps more demi, it would be like me choosing to have sex with someone before I was emotionally bonded with them and not sexually attracted to them, and I was like, I’ll have sex with you anyway.
SARAH: Yeah, that would be a similar thing. Then you have the other end of that, which is people who are ace who are sex repulsed. So if you’re sex repulsed that means that the thought of it just grosses you out and some people are just – because you know again, the whole thing is a spectrum, so there are some people who are like, I'm kind of grossed out by the thought of me doing this, but I don't mind if other people do it, and that's kind of where I'm at. I'm like, I don't really want to do it but I'm not going to be grossed out if someone around me is talking about it. I mean, I might be a little grossed out.
KAYLA: I feel like every time we talk about sex, you get grossed out.
SARAH: But it's not like, a repulsion, right?
KAYLA: Right, you’re just like, icky.
SARAH: Yeah, but then other people will be like, the thought of it, if they see it on TV, if someone mentions it, they’re just repulsed. They want to get out of that situation. And um, so that's – Ginger. I was getting very distracted.
KAYLA: Disclaimer, there is yet another dog in our house this week.
SARAH: I know we keep making these disclaimers about dogs and then we listen back and you can't actually hear the dog, but you might actually hear the dog this time.
KAYLA: My dog is so loud. She woke me up at 2:00, 4:00 and 8:00 a.m. And then my mom was like, well, that's just your reminder to not have kids anytime soon. And I was like, thanks Mom, not having sex right now anyway.
SARAH: Incredible.
KAYLA: So yeah, that's my dog. She's a little bitch and I'm mad at her today.
SARAH: She's also deaf. So if she’s barking, it's very hard to get her to stop.
KAYLA: Oh, so deaf. And so stupid.
SARAH: She's not stupid because she's deaf, but she is both deaf and stupid.
KAYLA: She was born stupid, she's been stupid and now is deaf also, and probably going blind. Anyway –
SARAH: Incredible. Anyway, sorry, I just got very distracted because I heard her walking outside the door but Ginger couldn't hear us, so she didn't try and get in.
KAYLA: Because she's so deaf. She's probably so confused about where we are.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: Good, that’s what she gets.
SARAH: But anyway, so there's basically that whole spectrum, and there are people that fall everywhere in between. One thing that, okay, I think there are two questions that you should never ask ace people. I think in general they are two questions you should probably never ask anyone, like if they come up in conversation, you can talk about it. But you shouldn't put them on the spot.
KAYLA: [You shouldn’t] be like, hey!
SARAH: And those two questions are as follows. One, asking about their sexual history.
KAYLA: Yeah, you really shouldn't, unless you're about to have sex with someone and need to know if they have a disease.
SARAH: But then you shouldn't be like, what’s your sexual history? You should be like, hey, do you have a sexually transmitted disease?
KAYLA: No, that's something you definitely should ask a sexual partner but not someone in general.
SARAH: And you shouldn't just ask like, how many people have you fucked, or what gender were they, or what was their sexuality? That's something that you shouldn't ask in general, but you really shouldn't ask an ace person because they may be sex repulsed, but they may have had sex before because they felt like they had to, and that might have been a really scarring situation for them. So that's just not something you talk about.
The other question is asking someone if they masturbate, because that is a question that ace people get all the fucking time.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And it's like, listen, some ace people do, some ace people don't. That pisses me off no end. I don't understand why you would ask anyone that.
KAYLA: I think that's a very inappropriate thing to ask someone because it's very private. From my perspective, I can say that I have wondered about that.
SARAH: Yeah, I mean I can see it being born out of curiosity. But I feel like that is also something – If someone asked me that, I would be so uncomfortable.
KAYLA: Yeah. I think if anyone asked anyone that you'd be like, what the fuck? I just think it's difficult because I can say this that is something I've been curious about.
SARAH: I understand.
KAYLA: Because they're just so linked. People usually think that sexual attraction and masturbating, since it's a sexual act, are very linked, even though if you're not sexually attracted to anyone obviously your body still works, you can still –
SARAH: And that is the interesting thing, that there are people who are ace who might even be sex repulsed, who would still decide to masturbate. I was reading about it just now and it was basically saying it's the prospect of doing something with someone else that's repulsive, and not necessarily the fact that you have genitals.
KAYLA: Yeah, because I think they can be very separated. I feel like a lot of people masturbate by watching porn or whatever which – another episode for porn – but you don't need that to masturbate, so it's literally just your body. So people who are sex repulsed could easily just be like, ooh feels good, gonna masturbate.
SARAH: Exactly. I think that's just a basic misunderstanding a lot of people have about ace people is that we're all celibate and we all don't do anything, and for some people that’s absolutely true. For other people that's not at all true.
KAYLA: I also think it's hard because I feel like a lot of people when they hear someone is ace and then they hear that person has had sex, they're like, well, you're not ace then, you're not ace anymore, it doesn’t count.
SARAH: Right, and I think a lot of times it’s like well, if you had sex once but then realized, and now you don’t anymore, that’s okay.
KAYLA: But if you continue –
SARAH: If you continue having sex, then you must not be ace and I think that’s also just a basic misunderstanding of what ace means. Because it’s not about what you choose to do, but it's about the attraction you have, or don't have, in this case.
(10:00)
KAYLA: Because you could date someone without being romantically attracted to them. You could have sex with someone without being sexually attracted to them. Are you romantically or sexually attracted to every person you kiss? Not when you're drunk.
SARAH: Yeah. Maybe you think you are.
KAYLA: Maybe you think you are but then you’re like, I'm drunk.
SARAH: But yeah, and when I talk about that, I'm referring to just people who are strictly asexual, and there are a lot of other identities under the ace umbrella, there's kind of a weird overlap, so I'm talking strictly about people who are asexual, which I can understand a little bit better because I am asexual. When we talk about the other ace umbrella identities, it'll involve a lot more research, because we’re not experts.
KAYLA: Yeah, because we're not pretending to know about things that we are not. Speaking of you being asexual, has anyone looked at Sarah's Twitter bio recently? Because I think it's my favorite of yours there’s ever been. You usually have some good bios –
SARAH: I'm pretty proud of my bios.
KAYLA: But it's a good one.
SARAH: Thank you.
KAYLA: It is ace, aro, ADHD, anti-sandwich.
SARAH: Uh-huh.
KAYLA: I don't agree with the last one.
SARAH: Oh, I think that's the one I feel strongest about.
KAYLA: Sarah that’s – really? You feel more strongly about your feelings about sandwiches than your sexuality, or your like, mental situation?
SARAH: I mean, I'm very strong in all of them, they're all big parts of me. But I think the anti-sandwich is really, it's –
KAYLA: Would you say that your anti-sandwichness is the biggest part of your identity?
SARAH: Absolutely, Kayla.
KAYLA: So I'm quitting the podcast.
SARAH: I’m going to start a podcast that's just anti-sandwich.
KAYLA: We're not doing that.
SARAH: Hmm, interesting.
KAYLA: You know what we could do is if you donate $10 to our Patreon, you get to choose any topic you want. I dare someone to donate $10 and make us do a sandwich podcast.
SARAH: We will somehow bring it back to -
KAYLA: We will bring you back to the topic, but you can literally tell us to do anything and we'll have to work it back to the topic. I dare you to give us –
SARAH: Within reason. If you say hey, do you guys masturbate? We're not going to answer.
KAYLA: We’re not going to do that. Yeah, but I dare you to give us $10 and make us do an episode about sandwiches. That's all.
SARAH: Interesting. So, do you understand that, does that make more sense to you now that I've explained it?
KAYLA: Yeah, it's just that – It makes a lot more sense now, but for me thinking about it, I cannot imagine a situation where I wasn't sexually attracted to someone and I would want to have sex with them, you know?
SARAH: Yeah, I mean neither can I, which is why that’s where I fall on this spectrum.
KAYLA: Right. I can understand if you have a partner that is not ace, but that just makes me feel like you're doing something you don't want to for your partner.
SARAH: Well, that's the thing.
KAYLA: That scares me.
SARAH: That's treading some dangerous waters because for me, I'm just thinking if I were their partner who was not ace, I would be concerned that they are just doing it for me.
KAYLA: Yeah, I’d be very scared.
SARAH: But they might not be. Like, if they are sex positive, then they might be like hell yeah, I’ll fuck you even though I don't feel any sexual attraction to you.
KAYLA: Even though I don't really feel it.
SARAH: But romantically, oh hell yeah. But I definitely would be a little wary that they are just doing it for me, but that's just like, you’ve got to trust them.
KAYLA: I mean, I think that's just, you would need a lot of communication in that kind of relationship, a lot of trust. I just like...(sighs)
SARAH: And that's another issue that, I know I'm saying it again, we want to do another episode on.
KAYLA: I'll write it down.
SARAH: It's already written down.
KAYLA: I will put that we talked about it though.
SARAH: Okay. People who have a non-ace romantic orientation, but are ace, it can be very difficult for them when they're in a romantic relationship, if their partner isn't also ace. Their partner might want to have sex with them and they might feel pressured, and some people might be very willing to do that but others might not be, and so that's a major thing to talk about in a relationship. If one of you wants to have sex and one of you just feels like you can't, then that's a major thing to talk about in a relationship.
KAYLA: And that's also hard because I think when you start dating someone or get involved with someone there's the assumption that like, we're going to have sex. But you don't just like, out yourself.
SARAH: Right, and then it brings up the question of, at what point do you out yourself?
KAYLA: Yeah, because there's going to be a point perhaps when the person is like, let's have sex now, but do you tell that person from the outset so they know, so they can decide from the beginning whether they want to be involved? I feel as though I may struggle with that, at some point.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: If I get to a point in a relationship with someone where I'm not yet feeling sexually attracted to them, but they're at the point in the relationship where they want to have sex, I would have to out myself, if I even think I'm in a closet.
SARAH: I mean, yeah. Or you can just be like –
KAYLA: Not yet.
SARAH: Not today. Not today for like, a month.
KAYLA: Talk to me in a month. I'll revisit it. But that also brings up other issues. Anyway, yeah, I can see that would be very difficult, because sex is very important for a lot of people in relationships. There's like books and podcasts about having a healthy sex life because it is a very important part of a relationship for some people, which is fine.
SARAH: But other people –
KAYLA: Other people it's not, and that's also fine. It just sucks when they like each other and they want to date.
SARAH: Also, just as someone who – I'm sex positive in the way I think that you should have sex with who you want, in a safe and consensual way.
KAYLA: Thanks Sarah.
SARAH: You’re welcome.
KAYLA: Thanks for enabling my sex life.
SARAH: I’m sex positive in that way, but I'm not sex positive –
KAYLA: You’re sex positive for other people but not for yourself.
SARAH: Right, not for myself and so I just can't imagine choosing to have sex with someone even though I'm not sexually attracted to them, that’s so foreign to me. And I think it's just, it's foreign to me in the same way that asexuality in general is foreign to a lot of people.
KAYLA: Yeah. I also think that it might be a little less foreign if you were also not aromantic.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Because you can't even picture yourself in a relationship of any sort that even could potentially get sexual, like that's never going to happen, so you don't have to worry about it.
SARAH: Right. So that's a struggle.
KAYLA: There it is.
SARAH: Okay, so I found this –
KAYLA: What did you find, Sarah?
SARAH: Thing on Reddit –
KAYLA: Oh, she's a Reddit lady.
SARAH: I'm not.
KAYLA: Me either, I don't get it, it confuses me a lot.
SARAH: Yeah, same. But this guy is saying that his wife is a sex positive asexual and he said it's half-worked for a while but starting to wear thin.
I'm going to read this, so he says “I found out that my wife was an asexual in a sort of tumultuous way. We were already about two years into our marriage when some sexual weirdness made me start asking questions, eventually discovering the truth. She'd been “faking it” the whole time. All right, we sort of dealt with that episode. The point is that she's perfectly happy to have sex with me, though she doesn't want it independently and never thinks about it otherwise, so we've carried on, albeit struggling, thus far with that in mind. But now I'm just sort of lonely. She's not with me in the moment. I have a really high libido and it's a very intense experience for me. And I know she's on the other end like she's playing a video game she doesn't particularly like. It's weird and starting to get really distasteful for me. This doesn't feel like it's enough of a big deal to be an end-of. We have an absolutely fantastic relationship otherwise; I'm just getting angry about it more and more now that I realize there's no such thing as a sexual adventure for us. No playing around, no discovering new things, no shared passion. I can't please her, not because I'm not good enough, but because she cannot be pleased. It's a limitation” – that's not quite true. “It's a limitation I've never had to consider and it's really, really hard to accept. I'm wondering what kind of solutions or workarounds there might be here? We've talked a lot and seem to come up with basically nothing. It genuinely seems like there is no way to compromise, and absolutely no semblance of a solution.”
KAYLA: What I think is that he's not fully grasping what she’s saying.
SARAH: He doesn't fully understand it because what he says earlier, when he says she doesn't want it independently and never thinks about it otherwise, that seems to me to be right.
KAYLA: Yeah, that seems absolutely like an asexual sex positive person would be.
SARAH: So I think he's taking what she's saying and he's able to regurgitate it but he's not able to understand it. Because if she's been “faking it”, I mean –
KAYLA: That's a separate issue. The issue of women faking an orgasm to save a man's pride is something I will go on about for days because it's stupid, and that is no way for a man to learn how to give you an orgasm, and they need to learn their lesson. But either way. there's a difference between her faking it and him saying that he can't please her, not because he's not good enough (whispers) sounds like he's not good enough. Sounds like he sucks at sex. Her body still works.
SARAH: There absolutely are people who do have issues with certain things working in that way –
KAYLA: Oh, for sure.
SARAH: But that doesn't seem to be the case here. It seems that she just is a sex positive ace and so, if you can't please her, that's because you’re not doing it well enough.
(20:00)
KAYLA: It’s still your fault.
SARAH: I do understand why it's an issue where he feels like she doesn't want to be doing that.
KAYLA: I totally understand why it's a struggle.
SARAH: I think her mindset going into it could also impact why he feels like he can't please her, because if she feels like she’s doing this just for him –
KAYLA: Yeah, if it's like a chore. That's no fun.
SARAH: Then that could be a factor in why it’s not working.
KAYLA: I totally understand why someone who, especially someone that sex is important to – The reason sex is important in a lot of relationships is like what he's saying, shared passions and exploring things. That's a big thing for people and often in the large part, an enjoyable part of a relationship. And so I can understand why he would be upset, because that's something that you may really want with a partner and you can bond over, it's something that makes you closer.
So I can understand why he would be upset by that, because that totally makes sense to me, but I think if she doesn't have some health issues that caused her genitals to not work the same as other people, or her libido is just you know, quite weak, which is the case for a lot of women, granting that's not true, I think he just fucking can't find the clitoris.
SARAH: I think that's absolutely a possibility.
KAYLA: I think he should maybe look at some diagrams of the vagina, because I feel like what he's saying that he can't please her because he’s not good enough, is just him making himself feel better and that maybe he should work harder.
SARAH: Yeah, because I can absolutely understand how that could disrupt your relationship, but I do think you should be able to get her off, unless she does have an actual medical issue.
KAYLA: Yeah, if she has a medical situation then I understand what he's saying and that's even more frustrating. Listen, I know that getting a woman off is harder than a man – It's not that hard. It shouldn't be two years of faking it. You're telling me that in two years she never had a real orgasm? He sucks.
SARAH: I think that's also difficult because going that long, I imagine you were dating for a while before you got married.
KAYLA: That's also my question. Were they not having sex before they got married?
SARAH: It's possible but it's also possible that she's just faked it before then or, just did it for him. I'm also wondering, did she not know she was ace or did she go this far in the relationship without telling him?
KAYLA: Maybe this is just me, someone that values communication a lot and openness but holding that in, even if it wasn't affecting their sex life for the first two years, holding that in in a marriage for two years, I feel that would affect other things. And he's saying that their marriage is so great otherwise, but like, I can't believe that if I was holding something in like that, that it wouldn't affect the happiness of the rest of the relationship.
SARAH: And when you said that, the first thing that came to my mind was like – Ginger.
KAYLA: I'll kill that dog. I will murder that dog.
SARAH: Please don’t murder your dog.
KAYLA: I’m so done with her.
SARAH: The first thing that came to mind was people who are bisexual not telling their partner that they’re bi, but that's even different because unless your partner is a homophobe or a biphobe, that doesn't impact the relationship.
KAYLA: Yeah, if your relationship is going to be exclusive and closed, after you’re being exclusive, not that it doesn't matter anymore, but it's not really going to –
SARAH: It’s not relevant to your relationship.
KAYLA: It's not super relevant. It's kind of like me after I get sexually attracted to someone, it doesn't matter that I’m demi other than I can reassure them that I'm not going to have sex with someone else. I’ll be like, you're welcome. I'm not going to have sex with someone else.
SARAH: But that's not even the same because with asexuality that's something that's likely to keep coming up in your relationship.
KAYLA: Yeah, like in every relationship.
SARAH: Not coming up.
KAYLA: Ha, come.
SARAH: I was talking about dick.
KAYLA: I was talking about what comes out of a dick.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: All right, listen. We just stopped a little bit to research some things and I was on Twitter while it was happening. This is totally irrelevant, but I want to die. Chadwick – What's the rest of his name?
SARAH: Chadwick Boseman.
KAYLA: Chadwick Boseman, the guy that’s Black Panther. How old do you think he is? Just take a few seconds. Think about him, look up a picture.
SARAH: I would say 27, 28.
KAYLA: About 25? That man is 41!
SARAH: The fountain of youth.
KAYLA: He looks like a teenager.
SARAH: Listen, I'm white. I'm going to just be so wrinkly and he's just beautiful.
KAYLA: It's not even like he's not wrinkly, his face structure –
SARAH: It just looks young.
KAYLA: Is that of a child.
SARAH: Not a child but, you know, like a 25 to 30 year old. Anyway, back on topic.
KAYLA: This is not related, but.
SARAH: So, there's a really good video series on YouTube by Ash Hardell. I used to think they were she but I think they're actually trans and I don't know what their preferred pronouns are so I'm going to call them they. They have done a bunch of video series for basically all of the aspects of LGBT spectrum, and they have a bunch of guests on who are people of that sexuality. They're really good, we can link them, and that's how I learned a lot that I've learned about the asexual community, or at least they’ve given me a good jumping off point.
So in one of those videos, they talked about something that I had never heard of before and that is stone, paper, and paper mache. There are some really weird ass terms in the ace community like zucchini and you know, all that fun stuff. Squish.
KAYLA: What was the one I've heard of the other day? Not squish. It was a plush, I think?
SARAH: Oh, yeah.
KAYLA: A crush on someone that you just wanted to like, be in a QPR with is a plush. Cutest thing ever.
SARAH: But that's like the same thing as a squish.
KAYLA: No, it's different.
SARAH: Is it?
KAYLA: A squish is when you want to be someone's friend, a plush is for specifically like, I want to be in a QPR with you.
SARAH: Oh, I see.
KAYLA: Sarah, I have a plush on you – I don’t, fuck you.
SARAH: Okay. Please don't fuck me. So, stone is when you prefer to give touch but not receive it. So you might be willing to be like, I'm gonna do this sexual thing on you, but I don't feel comfortable with you doing it to me.
Then there's paper which is the other way around, where you would feel okay having a sexual thing done to you, but you would feel very uncomfortable doing it to someone else.
And then there's paper mache which means you might be fine doing both but not at the same time. So it's like you could be giving it or receiving it, but not at the same time, and not even necessarily within the same time frame.
KAYLA: (sighs)
SARAH: Kayla has some thoughts.
KAYLA: Here's my struggle with getting this specific about things. It’s like for me, and I'm obviously someone that struggles with labeling my personal sexuality anyway, I understand it helps a lot of people and I'm not against labeling. My thing with labeling things like that is, do you need to, or is that just like a sexual preference at that point?
SARAH: I think within the ace community, I don't think it necessarily is just a sexual preference, and I understand the concern with it because then you're –
KAYLA: I’m not like, concerned, I’m just –
SARAH: You were saying it sounds like –
KAYLA: Well, yeah, my thing with – which one is that you won’t?
SARAH: Paper.
KAYLA: Yeah, with paper that to me sounds like a fuckboy. That’s like, I'm not going to eat you out but you can suck this dick, which I understand is obviously not how it is for a lot of people, that it's actually something you just don't feel comfortable with, which is something I've experienced in the past. It's like, I'm not ready for that yet, right now. It just sounds like a fuckboy to me but I understand that it’s not that for everyone.
SARAH: But I can also understand – I mean this doesn't necessarily apply to me, but I could understand being like, I really don't feel comfortable doing this to you. It’s one thing if you're doing it to me, but I just feel very uncomfortable or even repulsed by the idea of me doing it to you, and the other way around.
I don’t know. I understand it and I think for me, I felt most comfortable when I was able to give a really specific label to my sexuality. For a while, I was calling myself grayromantic because I wasn't sure, and I just didn't like that term because I didn't feel as it was specific enough for me. And so then I was just like, I'm going to try aro and I liked that so much better. And so for me, labeling has always been very important, so coming from that perspective, I can understand why someone would want to have that term, because it helps you fully understand yourself.
KAYLA: That’s true.
SARAH: If you're able to define it clearly like that, it makes more sense, and you might be able to find people who, you know, if you're paper and you only feel comfortable receiving it and you’re like hey, you’re stone, let's be friends.
(30:00)
KAYLA: I guess yeah, I can see the merits of that I suppose. I just perhaps can't relate on that level, because in my experience those are things are just preferences, but that's also because I get sexually attracted to people so –
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It's just so specific. Also, who came up with those titles?
SARAH: I don’t know.
KAYLA: Maybe workshop those a little, guys? Who did that?
SARAH: I don't know what their etymology is. But another thing that came up when I was checking on what those terms were was the idea of – So the way we've been talking about sex positivity has been in the terms of being willing to have sex, but there's another definition that is just a general cultural definition, not just within the ace community of being like, sex is good. Safe, consensual sex is good and you should have lots of it and like -
KAYLA: Well, okay, I wouldn't say that sex positive cultures are necessarily saying that you should have lots of it.
SARAH: Yeah, but they're encouraging you to.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And as the person I was talking about in a video, that can be a terrain that is difficult for ace people to navigate because as you mentioned earlier, you found an article about feminism and sex positivity –
KAYLA: Yeah, I found an article about basically, is there a space in the feminist movement for asexuals? And I think the feminist movement has a lot to do with liberating women and telling them it's okay to have sex and that you don’t have to be so constrained if you don't want to be. But a lot of that is necessitating saying like, oh go have lots of sex, don't restrain yourself, but then if you’re ace then you don't want it, so then you are, what, going against the feminist movement?
SARAH: Yeah, when it should really just be freedom to choose whatever you want, but oftentimes it’s misconstrued as, you should have lots of sex because it is freeing. It's for that reason that ace people a lot of times do have trouble navigating that and being like, okay, I'm still a feminist even if I don't personally want to do this.
KAYLA: It’s like you were saying that you don't want to have sex, but you support other people having safe sex.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: But you don't want it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But it's okay if other people do it.
SARAH: Exactly, and that's just a thing that I think often needs to be clarified, and I think that should be something that should be more talked about because in general, it's happened a couple times since we last talked about it where people – I got an email the other day from the big paper, the school paper at our school and they were doing a survey about sex –
KAYLA: I didn’t get this email.
SARAH: It was sent out to like, 6,000 people, it wasn’t everyone.
KAYLA: I am offended.
SARAH: It was basically the survey that they do every year. They basically wanted to know students’ general thoughts on sex and habits and stuff. And I was kind of curious so I was like, alright, I’ll look at this and see what you've got. Then as very often happens, about halfway through I stopped taking it, because it did not give any options that would apply to me, and it was basically assuming that everyone here has sex. It was, how many times a week do you have sex? And the lowest number was not zero, it was one.
KAYLA: Why the fuck would they do that?
SARAH: Or it was like, how many times a month do have sex? And it was like, one or less and I was like, okay, less. But then the further I got in, the more I struggled in answering the questions honestly because it was like, what is your preferred method of birth control? I don’t have one, I don’t have a need for it. And it was just like that, where this doesn't apply to me. And I think often times the feminist movement does forget that there are people out there who don't have sex, and who don't want to have sex, and so they're not intentionally excluding us –
KAYLA: They just don’t even think about it.
SARAH: And the same thing goes for the LGBTQIA+ community in general, because a lot of the thing in that community is, you know, have sex with you want, kiss who you want, be in a relationship with who you want and they often forget that –
KAYLA: Some people don't want.
SARAH: There's an option to not want, and that should be a valid option.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think that's just hard because like you said, it's not like they're intentionally excluding anyone. It's just, I think, so ingrained at this point in those kind of movements that are going for freedom, that they don't even stop to think about it. Because, why would they, I guess?
SARAH: And that's one of the – I mean ace people in the LGBTQIA+ community, we face other issues besides just being forgotten but that really is –
KAYLA: That's the main issue though.
SARAH: That is a big issue.
KAYLA: Like I would venture to say that the bigger issues are mostly contained to Tumblr.
SARAH: Hmm –
KAYLA: No?
SARAH: No. There are people even within the LGBTQIA+ community who think asexuality is not real.
KAYLA: I feel like most of the time I see that discussion, it was on Tumblr and I've never seen it anywhere else.
SARAH: Yeah because Tumblr is just like –
KAYLA: It's a cesspool of –
SARAH: There's a lot of good on Tumblr, but there's a lot of bad on Tumblr too and I think just because it's seen mostly on Tumblr – Tumblr is a place that allows itself to be opened up to talk about those sorts of things. And so I think there are people who think that, who don't necessarily vocalize it often, who don't exist in the space of Tumblr.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's true.
SARAH: Because you can't assume that the only people with these opinions –
KAYLA: Are the people saying it.
SARAH: Are on Tumblr. And so that is an issue not just with straight people but with –
KAYLA: Just everybody.
SARAH: Other LGBTQ people.
KAYLA: Yeah, but it's a struggle and it's all stupid.
SARAH: Yep. But sex positive aces do exist, and I think it's also important to specify that just because an ace person is sex repulsed, doesn't mean that they necessarily think that – They can be a feminist and be sex positive in the sense of like, other people can have sex but if they’re very sex repulsed they might just be like –
KAYLA: Not me.
SARAH: I don't want to hear about this, I don't want to know anything about it, but you can do it. I mean there might be some people who are that way and saying no one should have sex, but that's not the kind of person who I would align myself with.
KAYLA: Yeah, push them out of there.
SARAH: Yeah, and so obviously their identity is valid, but that doesn't mean all of their opinions are –
KAYLA: Super great.
SARAH: Right, but I think most ace people are cool with other people being safe and consensual about it. Some people just are willing to hear more about it than other people are. Some people are willing to think more about it.
KAYLA: Some people are willing to participate more than others, in all senses.
SARAH: Yeah, and that's just a thing. Does that make sense?
KAYLA: I feel very educated.
SARAH: Education. I hope you all learned some stuff. If I fucked anything up, let me know.
KAYLA: Please tell her how much she sucks because I know she's you guys’ favourite, and I want you to stop liking her. I don’t like her.
SARAH: I think that’s an important thing for people to understand is that there is a lot of diversity within the ace community.
KAYLA: And it's like your whole sexuality is a spectrum, but there's spectrums inside the spectrum.
SARAH: There are infinite spectrums. It's like that one John Green book –
KAYLA: No no no no.
SARAH: Which he has admitted is false, that some infinities are not bigger than other infinities.
KAYLA: Yeah, they’re all the same size, they’re literally the same.
SARAH: But there are infinities within infinities, which is what he also talks about.
KAYLA: Yeah, but also it's like Inception. Spectrum-ception.
SARAH: Spectrum-ception.
KAYLA: Can someone make that? I'd watch the fuck out of that, when we have free time.
SARAH: How would that make sense? How would that work?
KAYLA: It would just, you know –
SARAH: It wouldn't work Kayla.
KAYLA: No, I want –
SARAH: Visually, it doesn't work.
KAYLA: No, it’d be really cool.
SARAH. Okay. Anyway, Kayla, what’s our poll?
KAYLA: I don’t know, what's your favorite kind of Inception?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: Okay. Why does Chadwick look like that?
SARAH: I actually, hold on, I kind of want to do a serious poll this week. I want to ask people how much did they actually understand about, or did they even know about asexual sex positivity before they heard this?
KAYLA: Before this episode?
SARAH: Yeah. So before you listened to episode 16, how much did you know about asex po – No.
KAYLA: Oh boy.
SARAH: How much do you know about sex positive asexuality? One, didn't know it existed. Two, very little. Three, some. Four –
KAYLA: Lots.
SARAH: A lot. Because I'm just curious.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Yeah. All right, you can find that poll on our Twitter @soundsfakepod. We also have a Tumblr which I'm not going to forget to say this time, it's soundsfakepod.tumblr.com.
KAYLA: On there somewhere, on both you can find our Spotify playlist that we made of non-love songs, which I believe we have a few more that we need to add.
(40:00)
SARAH: Okay, we can do that.
KAYLA: I’ll have to look through our tweets.
SARAH: Our Tumblr is not a cesspool of hate, just so you know.
KAYLA: It's really fun. Usually, it's just me on there because Sarah doesn’t do it.
SARAH: Sometimes it’s me.
KAYLA: I’m pretty sure the other day we reblogged the same thing like, very close.
SARAH: Nice.
KAYLA: So if you ever see that it's because me and Sarah are both on there.
SARAH: And we also have an email, if you ever feel like emailing us and being like, thank you for educating me. It’s soundsfakepod@gmail.com.
KAYLA: If someone doesn’t email us that after this episode, I'm going to be really sad, now that you gave me that hope that someone might.
SARAH: Oh incredible. Kayla, where can they listen to future episodes and past episodes and all the episodes?
KAYLA: You can listen to every single million of all infinity of them - there's just 16, I lied - at iTunes SoundCloud, Stitcher Radio. A lot of you have been listening on Overcast, tell me how that is?
SARAH: What is that?
KAYLA: It's an app. I don't know much about it.
SARAH: I don't like it when the sky is overcast.
KAYLA: Anyway, a lot of you have been listening there, you can really find it anywhere you’ll find your podcasts. Leave us a comment, that would be super cool, on iTunes. If you could leave us a review, I'd be so pleased because right now I have 10 essays to write and I need some happiness.
SARAH: Didn’t our number of stars go down on iTunes?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But we don't know why, because we think it's from another country so we can’t read it.
KAYLA: Yeah, we can't see international reviews, which does not mean that if you are international you shouldn't leave us a review, bitch.
SARAH: Leave a review anyway.
KAYLA: But our stars went down to four point five, but I can't figure out why so I don’t know why you hate us and I'm sad.
SARAH: It's okay.
KAYLA: You can hate us, it’s fine, I’ll just cry.
SARAH: You can give us a number of stars you think is most appropriate.
KAYLA: Unless it's one.
SARAH: It might make us sad, but it's okay.
KAYLA: Sounds sad, but it’s okay.
SARAH: So if you want to support us on Patreon and give us ten dollars so that you can decide to make us do an article – an article? – a podcast all about sandwiches –
KAYLA: Or just a lesser amount of money for less perks.
SARAH: Yeah, true.
KAYLA: Basically, please give us money.
SARAH: You can join these three lovely fellows. We have our $5 patrons –
KAYLA: Where can you find it?
SARAH: Oh right, patreon.com/soundsfakepod.
KAYLA: It's linked -
SARAH: Everywhere.
KAYLA: Below.
SARAH: Below?
KAYLA: In an episode. If you go to the description, she's there.
SARAH: So Jennifer Smart is wonderful, and smart, and Jennifer. You can find her on YouTube at Lehen Productions. Super awesome stuff.
KAYLA: She, I think, is younger than us, and is way more talented.
SARAH: Is she? Oh how dare she.
KAYLA: She's at least our age and she's way more talented than I'll ever be and I want her to stop it, but not really, because I like looking at her things.
SARAH: Anyway, then you have Asritha. Asritha is existing –
KAYLA: She saw Mean Girls The Musical last night.
SARAH: Yeah, she did, I’m so jealous.
KAYLA: Me too. So go look at Instagram for that.
SARAH: Yeah, and that is @asritha_v. Then we have our $10 patron –
KAYLA: And we will soon be doing an episode that she chose.
SARAH: Very soon we're going to be doing her episode, but we need to get some references first.
KAYLA: We need to do some research.
SARAH: Yeah, but that is Emma, she is @emmatfink on Twitter and Instagram. Stay tuned for an episode that she requested.
KAYLA: Yes, that would be dope.
SARAH: But yeah, thank you for listening, I hope you learned a thing.
KAYLA: That almost rhymed, but just not enough to make me upset.
SARAH: Anyway, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.