Ep 345: Pets Boost Wellbeing More Than Partners
SARAH: Hey, what's up, hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl, (I'm Sarah, that's me.)
KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl, (that's me Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, ‘Pets are Better than Partners.’
BOTH: Sounds fake, but okay.
SARAH: This week we're a pod-ast.
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: If you listened carefully, that's how I said it.
KAYLA: A pod-ast? Is that?
SARAH: I did not say podcast, I said pod-cast.
KAYLA: Oh, I completely missed it, so.
SARAH: I just kept going.
KAYLA: It just all sounds the same to me at this point, I think.
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod, everyone.
KAYLA: Hello.
SARAH: How are you doing? Having a good time? I hope everyone is enjoying Debbie Urbanski's book, which you've all ordered and are reading.
KAYLA: I was gonna say, it's out now. I saw it at my local bookstore over the weekend, a couple of days before it was supposed to be out on shelves and Debbie said that she thinks it was the first sighting, so that's exciting.
SARAH: That's exciting. Kayla just texted it to me and I just responded with, “illegal.”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: That's illegal.
KAYLA: I was telling, I think it was Dean, or maybe it was my mom, I was at the bookstore with my parents and Dean. And I saw it and I was like, “oh, this isn't supposed to be out yet.” And they were like, “huh?” And then I was like, “this happens sometimes.” They like, things accidentally get out too early. And it's like, especially if it's some like big blockbuster, like new Hunger Games or whatever. Like, things get stinky, but.
SARAH: Things get stinky. Yes, great. Do we have any housekeeping?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Delightful. Kayla? I'm waiting for a response.
KAYLA: Oh. Yes?
SARAH: What are we talking about?
KAYLA: Usually, you just say it all as one.
SARAH: I know. I'm just… you got to mix it up. You got to keep them on their toes. What are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week, we are talking about pets and how they are good.
SARAH: They are good, indeed. So, this came up because I was listening to the ‘Golden Ratio Podcast.’
KAYLA: Shocking.
SARAH: No surprise there.
KAYLA: It has been years.
SARAH: I don't even really keep up with their social media closely at all. Like, my main source of Golden Ratio info is their podcast.
KAYLA: Love that.
SARAH: Like that's how I found out that one of their dogs died recently. RIP Brody. Best boy.
KAYLA: Their dogs have got to stop dying.
SARAH: I think they're down to five dogs now.
KAYLA: They've got to stop that.
SARAH: Well, of their five dogs right now, four of them are under the age of five, so.
KAYLA: That's good.
SARAH: Hopefully that will.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It's just because they take on like hospice and old dogs usually.
KAYLA: Yeah. That's very nice of them.
SARAH: But now they have some puppies because Hopper and Venk died and they were really sad, so, they got puppies.
KAYLA: This is fair.
SARAH: And normally I would say, adopt, don't shop. But when you're the Golden Ratio people and you have adopted so many elderly dogs.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It's okay.
KAYLA: You get to do a little shop as a treat.
SARAH: As a treat. But they were talking about this on their podcast. And this is an article from CNN. And it says, “Pets could boost wellbeing as much as a wife or husband, study suggests.” What about a non-binary spouse?
KAYLA: I was just going to say, what if they're not your wife or husband? Then what?
SARAH: What’s your research on that?
KAYLA: Then what? Science.
SARAH: But this is an article talking about a study. The study was published on March 31st in the journal ‘Social Indicators Research.’ And it concludes that having an animal companion is worth up to 70,000 pounds or $90,000 a year. Is that really only $90,000? Is that the conversion these days?
KAYLA: Wait. I'm just confused…
SARAH: We'll get there.
KAYLA: Why are we talking about money?
SARAH: We'll get there.
KAYLA: How did we get here?
SARAH: It's worth up to that much a year in life satisfaction…
KAYLA: Okay, wait a second
SARAH: Which is a metric economists used to quantify the implicit price of otherwise intangible things. Now on the Golden Ratio podcast, they were talking about how much they hate this particular metric.
KAYLA: Yeah. I don't know about that. This also reminds me, this is an article I almost sent to you as like a discussion topic, but it made me so depressed that I was like, no. There was this article that… it's by Harvard researchers. So, like, no hate, don't fire me. But like as a Harvard employee, I get like the ‘Harvard Gazette’ every morning and it's like articles about like research and whatever is going on at Harvard. And it was some like economist or like business school person that was like, we should be viewing intangible things like love and like sex and like things that people like want, but you can't necessarily buy. We should be like thinking about them more as commodities so that we can like figure out how to get them more when we want them, like think about it more as a product. And then you'll be able to like rationalize how to get it more in your brain.
SARAH: What in the post-capitalist hell!?
KAYLA: I was like, you're telling me that I need to think about love as a product and like a capitalist thing in order to like understand how to get more of it when I need it. I was like, that is so crazy. And so, then I was like, we're not… I stopped reading the article and I was like, we're not doing this, this makes me deeply sad.
SARAH: Yeah, no, I hate that.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So that is a detail of this that like trying to quantify it in terms of like how much it's worth in money. Like, the world doesn't work that way.
KAYLA: I would love to understand like what kind of formula they came up with.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because like, literally, how do you do that?
SARAH: I don't know. But what this article says is that figure is roughly the same as the theoretical boost in income you would get from having a spouse, not from their job, but from having… Again, I have questions. Or meeting up with friends and relatives regularly, researchers said, comparing their findings to other studies that have used the same statistical method.
KAYLA: Wait, what!?
SARAH: So, even though the method is wild and I have questions about it, when compared to other studies that have used this strange method, it seems to be roughly equivalent in these silly little terms as having a spouse or like frequently meeting up with friends and family, having a pet is equivalent.
KAYLA: I'm so confused.
SARAH: According to them.
KAYLA: I just don't understand. When you first said like the money from having a spouse, I was like, okay, yeah, there's like financial benefits that come from being married because of like how the government is structured and then… but it's not that. I’m so confused.
SARAH: Yeah, because it said having a spouse or meeting up with friends and family regularly.
KAYLA: How much money I make from meeting up with my friends regularly? And how am I not rich then?
SARAH: It's not an actual number, it can be worth up to that much in life satisfaction. I guess the argument is if you make a hundred thousand dollars, but are lonely, that's equivalent to making $30,000, but having a dog?
KAYLA: I don't think so.
SARAH: So, I have some questions about the methodology.
KAYLA: I'm so confused. My brain is not…
SARAH: Let's just read on.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Adelina Gschwandtner, an economics professor at the university, co-authored the paper and she was a little surprised even. She said, “I was thinking that is a lot of money, even for me, who loves pets.”
KAYLA: But what do you mean it's a lot of money? It's not real money.
SARAH: Okay. This person, Megan Mueller, who was not associated with the study, was not involved in the study, but is…
KAYLA: Great.
SARAH: But is who studies relationship between people and animals at Tufts says, “a lot of us perceive our pets as contributing to our life satisfaction, but depending on how you measure that in the research, it comes out different ways.” She told CNN adding that she was unfamiliar with the specific statistical analysis Gschwandtner used in the study.
KAYLA: Yeah. Yeah, we all are.
SARAH: In their study Gschwandtner, first of all, can I tell you how Gschwandtner is spelled?
KAYLA: I wish you would
SARAH: G-S
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: C-H-W
KAYLA: Ah
SARAH: A, we have a vowel. N-D-T-N-E-R.
KAYLA: Is this German?
SARAH: I'm pronouncing it as if it is German, but the G followed by the S is not a German letter combination
KAYLA: What is that? I don't even think that's Polish. What is that?
SARAH: I'm treating it as though if it is German and it is G-E. Gschwandtner. Gschwandtner. But I don't know if that's right. But you know the crazy thing? Her co-author is Michael Gmeiner. You know how you spell Gmeiner?
[00:10:00]
KAYLA: I'm scared.
SARAH: G…
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: M…
KAYLA: You're joking.
SARAH: E-I-N-E-R. They both have names that start with Gs, but are strange.
KAYLA: Where are these people from? Are these the people that did these stupid statistics?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I'm not convinced these people are real.
SARAH: They are professors at different universities.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: They're not even at the same university.
KAYLA: These things do happen.
SARAH: Gschwandtner, name. It comes from the high middle German word ‘swand’, meaning to thin out or disappear, and was probably given to someone who lived in a clearing or glade. It was first found in Swabia; it was found where I lived.
KAYLA: Well, the people there sound bad at science.
SARAH: Okay. Well, hold on. Now I have to look up the other name.
KAYLA: Based off of my extremely limited sample size of one researcher.
SARAH: Gmeiner is, or… it's German, so it might be Gmeiner, I don't know. A co-owner, partner in a debt, companion.
KAYLA: What is a debt companion?
SARAH: It's a nickname from Middle High German, and it means a co-owner, a partner in debt, or a companion. It comes from Gemeinder.
KAYLA: No wonder this guy has weird theories about money, he's a debt companion.
SARAH: Anyway. Okay. Um, so these two people did this study. All right. Are you ready?
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: So, he's from the London School of Economics. They used data collected in a long running survey of 2,500 British households. Rather than simply comparing life satisfaction and pet ownership, which would reveal little except a correlation between the two variables, the economists then set about proving a causal link. To do this, they used a complicated statistical tool known as an instrumental variables approach. This works by finding a third variable which is correlated with, in our case, the pets, but is not correlated with life satisfaction. And so, what this variable tries to capture is potential omitted variables, potential reverse causation. For example, the authors wrote, it could be that happy and healthy people decide to take a pet as a companion rather than pets making people happy and healthy. So, in their research, they used survey data on personality types as well as pet ownership and life satisfaction to control this factor. If pets improve life satisfaction as much as the study suggests… no, that doesn't matter. I don't care about what she thinks, I want to know about the methodology.
KAYLA: No, I mean, this methodology does… I mean, that part makes sense to me from the many research classes I have taken.
SARAH: But why is it money?
KAYLA: Right. The controlling… because like that's a good point. People who are more satisfied with life, like the correlation could just be the other way.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But where does the money come from?
SARAH: Why are we… how are we measuring it in money? I guess if you don't know what else to measure it in, money is maybe, well, it's an idea. I don't know if it's the best idea. It's an idea.
KAYLA: The initial thought I had when money was first brought into this was like, could you measure it in like, there's like no way to ask someone this because how could you conceptualize this in your brain of like, how much money would you be willing to pay to like buy the amount of life satisfaction that having a pet gives you? Do you know what I mean?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: How much would you have to like spend on a vacation to get the same amount of life satisfaction?
SARAH: But I think it also depends on your socioeconomic tax bracket.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I don't think it's a socioeconomic tax bracket, it's just an economic tax bracket.
KAYLA: Yeah. But none of this makes sense.
SARAH: Right. Because like a person who's already really rich might be willing to pay $500,000 because that money is nothing to them.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Whereas a person who makes $30,000 a year is absolutely not going to be willing to pay that much money because it would put them in debt for the rest of their fucking life.
KAYLA: That's also the thing about using money for this kind of scale is I can understand the argument of like, well, money is like objective, but it's also like not.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like $1 is $1, yes. But depending on your circumstances, $1 could be worth more than a dollar or way less than a dollar.
SARAH: Well, like $1 in the United States of America is technically the same as $1 in Colombia.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But it's worth a lot more in Colombia than it's worth here.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, economics.
KAYLA: I just don't understand how money got here. Who brought money here?
SARAH: I think the money... Yeah, I don't know. Listen. Listen.
KAYLA: Did they never explain the money in this article?
SARAH: No. That's basically the whole article, I gave you everything that was relevant to us. I think we should ignore the confusion about the money.
KAYLA: I don't think I can.
SARAH: And we need to talk about the comparison, which I know is based in the concept of conceptualizing it with the value of money, but we need to just get past that.
KAYLA: I can't. I can't. I just can't.
SARAH: The comparison is interesting that having a pet could bring... Studies show, this study shows...
KAYLA: Studies show.
SARAH: That having a pet could bring just as much life satisfaction as having a spouse or frequently meeting up with friends and family. Now, this depends on how good your marriage is.
KAYLA: That is such an excellent point, because they just said having a husband or wife.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But having a husband or wife could really decrease your life satisfaction. Like, I know some people...
SARAH: For a lot of people it does.
KAYLA: I know some people going through divorces right now.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: If I say people, I mean, one person, I know one person who's divorced right now.
SARAH: Do you know two people? Do you know the person they're divorcing?
KAYLA: I don't. I kind of know the one person, like an acquaintance.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And it seems very unsatisfactory from the little I understand of it.
SARAH: There are a lot of people in horrible marriages, and there are a lot of people who have significantly improved life, enjoyment, because of their marriage. But I guess this is averaging it out? I don't know. But from an aspec perspective...
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Are pets worth as much as a spouse?
KAYLA: Here is my first thought, and it's an upsetting thought. But if you're thinking about worth, not in money, because I don't understand, just like in general worth, a spouse, I mean, I guess you would hope a spouse is going to last longer than your average pet, unless it's a bird. I know someone with a bird, and that bird is never going to die.
SARAH: Or a horse.
KAYLA: How long do horses live?
SARAH: They can be like 40.
KAYLA: Oh, that's much older than I thought, that makes no sense.
SARAH: When they're captive, if they're in the wild, they don't live that long.
KAYLA: That makes sense.
SARAH: Or like a tortoise.
KAYLA: Well, tortoises are living a long time.
SARAH: Tortoise is going to outlive your spouse.
KAYLA: They're living a long time.
SARAH: I think the idea is that pets in general improve the worth value of your life, but you can't pin it on one pet in particular, because they're eventually going to die.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Addie is going to live forever.
KAYLA: And so are my cats, I was just discussing this with Dean not an hour ago.
SARAH: My parents and my sister and my sister-in-law went to Florida last week, and they came home, and for some reason, my sister was with my parents. I don't know, I'm confused about this aspect. But my dad came home, and he said to my 17-year-old dog, “thanks for not dying when we were gone.”
KAYLA: That's nice. Hey, but it's nice to be acknowledged, so that was nice of him to say.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: That was nice of him to say.
SARAH: She's going to live forever. She's 17. She's going to live forever.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, at this point, she basically already has. Might as well just keep going.
SARAH: Might as well keep going. I mean, my sister-in-law's grandma's cat that recently died was 20 years old, so.
KAYLA: Yeah, cats, they live a long time.
SARAH: But yeah, I think you can't pin it on one particular animal, because they do have shorter lifespans than humans, unless it's a tortoise.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: In which case, pin it on that tortoise. It's like pin the tail on the donkey, but pin your life worth on the tortoise. But I do think pets make you... Listen, as someone who has recently acquired a pet, I think it has been good for me. In some ways, it has been stressful.
KAYLA: Yeah, but so is having a husband.
SARAH: But so is having a spouse.
KAYLA: Here's my thing, because I'm sitting here thinking, I have essentially a husband at this point, we not married, but like that's my husband.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And I also have two cats…
SARAH: Weird.
KAYLA: Weird, I know. I also have two cats.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
[00:20:00]
KAYLA: I don't know that I could say that one gives me lower life satisfaction than the other, but I think they are satisfactory in different ways.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I can and I do talk to my cats when I'm having a bad time, but they are not going to talk back.
SARAH: They don't give good advice.
KAYLA: They don't. They don't. But I like them, and they're nice to cuddle and to look at.
SARAH: Like, my cat bites me all the time.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But she's so cute.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's the thing. Like, those are my little babies.
SARAH: That's my child.
KAYLA: But also, I hate them sometimes.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But also, you know, Dean is not great sometimes, I guess.
SARAH: Yeah. I think putting pets on a similar level as a spouse could be, I think is fair. In every situation, like, not every situation is going to be equal. Obviously.
KAYLA: Yeah. But people already put pets on the same scale as children, like, all the time.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Like, I have… like, one of my coworkers does not have kids. She has dogs, and those are her children. She's, like, obsessed with them.
SARAH: Yeah. Well, because when I got Addie, it was the same weekend that my sister accidentally acquired a cat.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But she kind of, like, kept that on the down low, because she was like, this is Sarah's...
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: She's having her first child.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's a big deal.
SARAH: It's a big deal. That's my child.
KAYLA: That's your baby.
SARAH: Or, like, when my sister, when they got Rosie, and she said that she should have made a bigger deal out of telling me, because she knew that I would be way more excited about Rosie than about her ever having an actual child.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And that's true.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But, yeah, I think, yeah, they are kind of put on the same level as kids in a lot of ways.
KAYLA: You might as well just...
SARAH: Did your kids get you anything for Mother's Day?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Yeah, mine didn't either. She scratched me a lot, because we tried to cut her nails.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And she made the artist formerly known as my roommate bleed.
KAYLA: My cat screamed a lot in the middle of the night. This was going to be my beef, and I guess it still can be, but it feels relevant. We've in the past couple days, been trying to sleep-train Neoki.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Because she, just in the middle of the night, walks around screaming for no reason. And so, we've been trying to keep her up more, and here she is, oh my God, rubbing against the cactus. We've been trying to keep her awake more during the day, so she sleeps through the night and stops just roaming around screaming.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Which is cool.
SARAH: Yeah. While we're on this topic, if anyone has any parenting advice for a cat that, if you try and cut her nails, touch her toe beans, touch her legs, freaks the fuck out.
KAYLA: Have you tried those little like…
SARAH: And screams and scratches a lot?
KAYLA: Don't they make like little bags? Have you seen those bags?
SARAH: I have not tried that yet. I do… I have. But I mean, she was bad enough that the groomer said that she needed to be sedated next time.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So...
KAYLA: Could you just drug her?
SARAH: Well, I could, I would need the drugs. I mean, I do have some Gabapentin. I need to talk to the vet. The other piece of advice I'm looking for is for cats that don't like to be brushed very much.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: I have acquired many types of brushes and even the ones that are like, “oh, my cat that hates being brushed tolerates this.” You get it near her and she's like, “why are you stabbing me?”
KAYLA: What about one of those like gloves?
SARAH: I almost got one of those, but then I ended up getting a different one because it was supposed to be good for cats who don't like being brushed. And I need to like have like a full attempt at it because like when I first got it, I just kind of like tried it a little bit and she was like, “girl, stop stabbing me.” I'm like, “this is not stabbing you.”
KAYLA: She just seems extremely dramatic, I fear.
SARAH: She's just very dramatic. She likes to bite me. We'll get to that later. It's part of my beef.
KAYLA: I see.
SARAH: Anyway, okay, what about… I mean, it is also interesting to me that in these studies, it says that having a spouse is equivalent to often meeting with family and friends.
KAYLA: Yeah, I am very interested in that because usually people are like, “oh, a spouse is better than family and friends.” Like, once you get married, like your spouse is supposed to be like your number one everything. But it's like if it's the same, then what are we?
SARAH: Well, science shows… I mean, that's the difference, I guess, between what people perceive and what science shows. Not that science is foolproof and I don't know what the methodology of the study was, if it has been replicated, I don't know any of these details.
KAYLA: I did go to the study.
SARAH: You did.
KAYLA: And I have found the section where they explain how the money works, if you're interested.
SARAH: You can certainly try.
KAYLA: Okay, I'm not really sure I fully understand this either.
SARAH: If you don't understand it, then I'm fucked.
KAYLA: Well, I like… we'll see.
SARAH: You've at least taken classes to understand this.
KAYLA: I have. So, they use a simple regression analysis to determine the implicit price of different factors or occurrences in life. For example, economists have shown using life satisfaction surveys that marriage compared to being single is worth around 70,000 pounds a year for a representative person in Great Britain. Separation, on the other hand, is equivalent to around minus 170 pounds a year.
SARAH: I have, note, problem.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So that in fact, I'm looking at what you just read. The citation is from 2002.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, the money there is not gonna be the same.
SARAH: 70,000 pounds in 2002 is not even close to what 70,000 pounds is in 2025.
KAYLA: No, that's true. They should have factored in.
SARAH: Did we factor in inflation?
KAYLA: I'm sure they did not
SARAH: Continue.
KAYLA: Okay. The life satisfaction approach assumes that an individual maximizes utility derived from consumption of environmental goods, marketable goods like housing. Okay. And then there's this formula.
SARAH: U equals P... No, U equals V (P, Y, A)
KAYLA: Utility equals something times the price, times the income, and the level of the…
SARAH: Times the good or amenity, e.g., scenery or pet companionship in our case. Using self-reported life satisfaction as a proxy for utility and estimating, math, elicits the marginal value of pet companionship if pet companionship, income, housing prices, and other relevant amenities and controls are included in the life-satisfaction regression. It includes different demographic, socio-economic, and other variables, and typically income in log form to account for its declining marginal utility… Oh, my God. I hate math.
KAYLA: I think what they're trying to say.
SARAH: This formula is unhinged.
KAYLA: Okay. The estimated relationships can be used to derive the implicit marginal rate of substitution
SARAH: They get crazier. I scrolled down…
KAYLA: Stop, wait, I think I'm understanding it.
SARAH: Okay. Okay.
KAYLA: Okay. The implicit marginal rate of substitution between pet companionship and income, i.e., the amount of money that an individual would be willing to give up for a change in the pet variable, given that the utility stays constant. So, I was kind of right.
SARAH: So, it's like if you had to pay seventy thousand dollars to keep your dog.
KAYLA: But it's also bringing life satisfaction into that.
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: So, like keep your life satisfaction the same. How much money would you need? So, get rid of your dog. How much how much money would we have to give you to get rid of your dog and your life satisfaction stays the same?
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Yes?
SARAH: Yes. That I understand.
KAYLA: Is that what they said?
SARAH: You're asking me?
KAYLA: I don’t know
SARAH: Every time I scroll down, I see a more complicated formula.
KAYLA: There’s more. This is crazy.
SARAH: Like, I can't even explain this to you because they use this backward six, I don't know what letter that is, and an Eszett, like, the double S in German. It looks like a B. MRS equals backward six L S to the lower to the down lower I, divided by…
KAYLA: No, no, no, you have to stop. Okay. The end of the section says that the advantage of this method is that you're estimating the value.
SARAH: No, it says the big advantage. Okay.
KAYLA: Sorry, the big advantage, is that they can determine the value of the pet for the individual without directly asking the person about how much money their pet is worth. So, I think what I was saying is right, is you're basically in a roundabout way trying to get at like how much money is this pet really worth to you?
[00:30:00]
SARAH: Yeah. It says this is presumably a cognitively less demanding task and there is no reason to expect strategic behavior or different biases derived from a hypothetical scenario.
KAYLA: Which like I understand, but like how… there's no way this is working.
SARAH: Yeah. This is why I studied liberal arts.
KAYLA: Okay. Yeah. So, based… okay, I think what they're saying is you put all of these variables together of your income, like how good your housing situation is and the amenity, which in this case is the pet. You put all that together and it equals life satisfaction. And then they're like doing their fancy equation to basically then flip the equation to be like, okay, how much is the pet worth in this situation money-wise for the satisfaction?
SARAH: Sure.
KAYLA: I don't know, man. I don't know if I agree with this.
SARAH: I'm trying to find the original study that showed the thing about how much a marriage is worth, because I want to see if it contains information on how much other things that are not marriage are worth.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Here, this is from the abstract. I don't think we can see this whole thing. And, you know, I wouldn't want to. Okay. Getting married is calculated to bring each year the same amount of happiness on average as having an extra seventy thousand pounds of income per annum. The psychological costs of losing a job greatly exceed those from the pure drop in income. Widowhood brings a degree of unhappiness that would take, on average, an extra one hundred and seventy thousand pounds per year to offset. That article said that divorce. So, is divorce and widowing the same?
KAYLA: Truly what they are saying is, okay, I'm going to take your dog, how much money do I have to give you for this to not ruin your life satisfaction?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Which makes no sense. How can you quantify something like that? Like, yeah, if you give me one hundred thousand dollars, I'll to force my husband.
SARAH: Well, but that's why they had to do it in a way where the people were not themselves giving numbers.
KAYLA: Answering, right. But like, hello!
SARAH: Anyway, do you think pets are worth as much as a spouse? Yes, or no?
KAYLA: I just…
SARAH: Do you think pets are worth the same as having friends and family?
KAYLA: I just don't feel like worth is the way that we should be studying any of this.
SARAH: Wow. Okay, new age.
KAYLA: Okay. Okay.
SARAH: The other thing for this episode is actually an ‘Am I the Asshole?’
KAYLA: Wow.
SARAH: My sister sent this to me yesterday and it seems relevant, kind of.
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: And I haven't read it in full, but from what I have seen, it seems relevant. So, we're just adding a charming little ‘Am I the Asshole?’ topper to this episode.
KAYLA: Perfect.
SARAH: I would like you to know that my sister sent this to me and in her text, she said, “trigger warning, aphobia.”
KAYLA: Okay, great.
SARAH: And then let me read you the title. ‘Am I the asshole for not attending my daughter's gender reveal for her lizard?’
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: The combination of the trigger warning, aphobia and this title really drew me in. So, this is actually… it was posted a couple of days ago on like, ‘BestofRedditorUpdates,’ but it was originally from 2021 on the ‘Am I the asshole?’ Subreddit. ‘This is literally really stupid, but she's really upset about it.’ So, I , 48, daughter, 23, has a Blue-tongued skink who she heavily adores. She joking refers to it as her daughter. I found it weird, but she says it's because it's the closest thing she'd have to a child and she feels a strong emotional bond similar to a child. She has decided to remain child-free for multiple reasons, and I have been very supportive of this decision. Well, she recently took her skink to the vet for a checkup.
KAYLA: Skink is crazy, by the way.
SARAH: She took the skink to the vet for a checkup and she was excited to find out her skink's gender. Afterwards, I got a text asking if I'd come to her gender reveal party she was having. She explained it was just a small get-together with cake and food for her friends she hasn't seen in a while, with the gender reveal being mostly a joke and a way to make fun of real gender reveals. Well, I didn't come. I didn't see the point.
KAYLA: Ma’am.
SARAH: It's just a lizard and I'm a busy person.
KAYLA: That's her daughter! What do you mean you're a busy person? Your daughter invited you to hang out.
SARAH: With her and her friends!
KAYLA: Oh my God.
SARAH: She later called me and expressed she was kind of sad I didn't come because it had been a while since I'd seen her, but she understood I was busy. I told her she couldn't actually expect me to come to a gender reveal for a lizard. She said that it wasn't a real gender reveal, that it was more of a joke and it was really just a small gathering to catch up with everyone. I told her if that was the case, she should have just called it a gathering because I'm not coming to a gender reveal unless it's for a real granddaughter.
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: She got quiet for a minute and then turned my words around, claiming I wasn't supportive of her decision to be child-free.
KAYLA: Yeah, it does sound that way, doesn't it?
SARAH: It was interesting that early in this post, OP was like, “I have been supportive of her decision to remain child-free.”
KAYLA: No
SARAH: But now it seems like maybe that's what you're trying to tell yourself.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I told her she can't possibly expect me to treat a lizard as a granddaughter. She said she didn't expect me to, but it was clear I didn't respect her bond with her lizard and her decision, and she just wanted to see me and my reason for not coming was hurtful. I told her she was being ridiculous over a lizard and she claimed it wasn't over the lizard and it was a gathering and not even centered around the lizard. But I stick by to what I said, it's ridiculous to have a gender reveal for a lizard. She hung up and I got a message from her best friend about how I'm an asshole for treating her that way, but I don't think I'm the asshole for not wanting to go to a party for a lizard. There are updates.
KAYLA: This lady is stupid.
SARAH: Edit. In the time I was away, I got many replies and it was a lot to read through.
KAYLA: I bet
SARAH: Let me clear a couple of things up. One. My issue is that she said the party was a gender reveal.
KAYLA: She didn't. She clearly said it was a joke. In the invitation, she clearly said. She clearly said, ma'am.
SARAH: If she had called it just a party, I would have come, but calling it a gender reveal makes it sound like it's for the lizard, and I'm not going to that even if it is a ‘joke.’ Two. I don't know why it matters, but the skink is a girl, which is why I said I'm not coming to a gender reveal unless it's for a real granddaughter. Three. Even though I don't agree with my daughter for being child-free
KAYLA: A-ha
SARAH: I have been supportive…
KAYLA: No
SARAH: And only shown mild frustration. That is not being supportive.
KAYLA: My god, thank you for only showing mild frustration. That's so big of you. Fuck you.
SARAH: If you feel mild frustration, vent to your fucking friends. Your daughter should not ever know about it.
KAYLA: I've only shown mild frustration…
SARAH: But she’s supportive
KAYLA: Which reads to me as just like probably a lot of passive aggressive comments.
SARAH: Are you ready? It continues.
KAYLA: This lady sucks.
SARAH: The reason she decided to be child-free is she claims she's asexual.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: She just doesn't want one. She has emotional baggage and feels unable to care for a real child. She fears pregnancy, and she has a carrier gene like me and ‘doesn't want to go through what I did.’ I had four miscarriages and a highly defect child that died after three months due to the gene.
KAYLA: These all feel like incredible reasons not to have a child.
SARAH: Even on their own, each of these is a completely valid reason to not want a child.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Together?
KAYLA: Great.
SARAH: Of fucking course.
KAYLA: Together? Also, like what incredible emotional maturity to be like, “I don't think I can care for a child well.”
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Good. I would rather you say that and not have a kid than people be unable to care for a child and then try anyway.
SARAH: And also just like, “I have a carrier gene, I think that trying to have a biological child is going to be traumatic for me and everyone involved.”
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: “So, it's not what I want to do.”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay. Yes, there has been slight tension between us because I think she just hasn't found the right man. She never dated growing up and her other fears are unnecessarily exaggerated. But it's ultimately her decision and I don't resent her.
KAYLA: I just don't believe you.
SARAH: Four. We haven't seen each other in three months. I'm a single mother and we have always been close, which is why she invited me with her friends. I just didn't want to go to a party with the lizard and if it wasn't for the lizard, she should have called it a party instead of a gender reveal. Here's the thing. My mom lives across the country from me, I have seen my mom more recently than within three months.
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: Me too.
SARAH: You have seen your mom.
KAYLA: She was just here. And you know what…
SARAH: What do you mean you've always been close but you haven't seen each other in three months?
KAYLA: And you know what my parents did when they were here? They came to my toddler princess party and they played with me and my friends.
SARAH: They sure fucking did. That's just so wild. I mean, clearly, they've spoken in three months, but there's no indication that they don't live in the same general vicinity as each other.
KAYLA: Also, what is your fucking problem with the lizard?
SARAH: It's because the lizard is not a human.
KAYLA: I know. But like, even if this party was mostly about the lizard, instead of like, it's a get together and the lizard is also there in a joke. Say this was completely like, this is all lizard.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Okay, that sounds great.
SARAH: I would love to go to a skink gender reveal.
KAYLA: I would too.
SARAH: I would much rather go to a skink gender reveal than a human gender reveal.
KAYLA: Also, like, I feel like as a parent, wouldn't you want your kid inviting you to like silly things like that with their friends? Like…
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: To me, that's like, “oh, my kid likes hanging out with me, that's nice.”
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: And instead, you're like, “no, fuck you and your lizard.”
SARAH: Even though I've told her she just hasn't found the right man yet, she still invited me to her skink gender reveal party and I refused to go.
KAYLA: I hate… this lady does not know how to have fun and I hate her.
SARAH: She does not understand that pets are just as important as the spouse.
KAYLA: This pet is worth £70,000 and she doesn't get that.
SARAH: She doesn't get that. Let me just go through quickly some of the responses. The verdict is that she's an asshole.
KAYLA: Yeah. Yeah.
SARAH: This person goes, the issue is that OP is stingy with love. Quote, why should I love a stupid lizard? Why can't you get interested in the things your kid likes and share her excitement and joy? Just the little things. No, she's never going to have kids. So, you could have seen that adorable, quirky kid you raised to be as funny and sweet as she is and gone to her party and mingled with her. Probably also quirky, funny, sweet friends and had a lovely time. But, no.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Like you as a parent, you don't have kids so that you will become a grandparent.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: You have kids because you want to have kids or at least you're supposed to.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm. This lady sucks.
SARAH: My cousin, speed ran it, is a grandmother at 37. Good on her.
KAYLA: Listen, happens to the best of us.
SARAH: Happens to the best of us. But it's not like that's what her life plan was.
KAYLA: Yeah. I bet she would have gone to her daughter's skink gender reveal party.
SARAH: Oh, she would absolutely go to her daughter's skink gender reveal party. I would fly across the country.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I wouldn't go that far. But if I were in town, I would absolutely fucking go to a skink gender reveal party.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Oh, this is the… OP commented back, I will be honest, I don't have any particular feelings for the lizard. I think it looks like a snake and that freaks me out. And it is incapable of feeling emotions. So, I don't know why she feels a bond with it. She even named it Ellie, a human name, so that she can tell people, “I have to get home to Ellie,” so, she can act like she's busy with a kid at home, which I believe is an unhealthy way to cope with her social anxiety. That's fucking hilarious. She should learn to get comfortable with saying no instead of using a lizard as an excuse to neglect social obligations. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.
KAYLA: Is this woman okay?
SARAH: If she says, “I have to get home to Ellie,” and people assume it's a child, they will ask her about her human child.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And if she doesn't have a human child, that's going to put her in a more awkward situation.
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't... Yeah.
SARAH: She doesn't actually say that she has to get home to Ellie so that people think that she has a child.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: That's not what she's doing.
KAYLA: Because also, I don't think she would want people to think that she has a human child
SARAH: No
KAYLA: Because she doesn't want one.
SARAH: Yeah, I think Ellie is a great name for a skink
KAYLA: I hate this woman.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: What was the full… a blue something skink? I want to look up this lizard.
SARAH: Blue-tongued skink.
KAYLA: Blue-tongued skink. Oh, pretty. Its tongue is blue. Can you believe that?
SARAH: Whoa. It's bigger than I expected.
KAYLA: Its tongue looks like a Laffy Taffy.
SARAH: Laffy Taffy. Laffy Taffy. It is bigger than I expected. I was expecting it to be smaller.
KAYLA: Yeah, me too. Kind of scary.
SARAH: I can see why she's a little scared of it, but I would still go to that gender reveal.
KAYLA: It's too bad its tongue wasn't like pink.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: Because then it's like its tongue could be the gender reveal, you know?
SARAH: Comment. “You're the asshole. That's your grand lizard.”
KAYLA: That is your grand lizard.
SARAH: My mom was so excited to meet Addie, that's her granddaughter.
KAYLA: My grandma gets my cats like Christmas presents for her grand cats. Like, hello?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: You know what we have?
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: In my parents' house, we have a bunch of like little stockings that they're like, I don't know, each like half of, I don't know, like six inches tall maybe. And we have one for every member of the family. It just has like the first letter of their name, but it's also for all of the pets. So now we have this just like huge string of them.
SARAH: As you said.
KAYLA: And it's for everyone.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: All that… my parents, me and Rachel, our significant others, the baby and all of the pets.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And we're all there.
SARAH: Absolutely. The pets have stockings. Okay, this comment was just saying, “you've invalidated your 23-year-old daughter, who knows very well by now who the hell she is.” “I think she hasn't found the right man.” And this person saying, “she's waving a huge flag here. She is asexual. If she came out as lesbian, would you say that she has just not met the right man?” Like, is that like what's up? And next, “you invalidate her fears of going through the same heartbreak that you yourself went through trying to have kids from miscarriages to a child who passed. Not everyone is as emotionally stunted as you that they could speak of those situations so devoid of feeling.” “I'm actually tearing up thinking about what you went through and how in your small mind, you wish your own surviving child would go through it as well just to pop out a kid.”
KAYLA: Tea.
SARAH: Also, for your sake, go get therapy. You need to reconnect with your emotions. OP, responds, “I wouldn't say I've invalidated it…”
KAYLA: Oh my God
SARAH: “She says she doesn't experience sexual or romantic attraction, nor has a want for it, which is only because she hasn't found the right person yet.”
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: “It's impossible for someone to not feel such a natural feeling.”
KAYLA: Ah
SARAH: “Everyone feels it. It is a normal chemical in our body. I've tried to explain this to her. For some reason, she fears physical interaction with men. I think her feelings probably stem from not having a father because he left when she was three. Yes, it was hard on me.” The second part is about the miscarriages, the other thing. “There were many tears, and it's partly why her father left.” Again, it is maybe why. “But that's what mothers do. She knows how important to me it is that I finally gave birth to a child that actually lived to grow up, and it does hurt she wouldn't continue for me when I went through that pain. That's why there's been tension for her decision, and I will admit I am unhappy with her decision, but I have been as supportive as I can, and I haven't been mean about it.” Another response she said…
KAYLA: Far on the floor
SARAH: Was, “she kept labeling it as a gender reveal.” Oh, this person says, “she told you twice the party wasn't actually for the lizard.” And then she goes, “well, she kept labeling it as a gender reveal party, though. She bought a cake that said, it's a girl, and popped a pink sparkly glitter pop or two, which I think is ridiculous. The lizard can't appreciate or love this. It can't even feel emotions.” First of all, what do you know about lizard emotions? Second of all, you're out here very confidently saying that lizards can't feel emotions, but you're also saying that it's impossible for someone to not feel such a natural feeling as sexual or romantic attraction. Everyone feels it. It is a normal chemical in our body. You think both of those things are true?
KAYLA: I don't think this woman has emotions herself.
SARAH: Like, we don't know the details about what's going on in the hearts and minds of lizards, okay?
KAYLA: I don’t
SARAH: But I would argue that sentient beings have emotions of some sort.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You can see it in the way that they act. I saw a thing recently about how one of the main, like, visual differences between wolves and dogs is that dogs evolved to have emotive eyebrows.
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: And that's part of the reason why sometimes looking at wolves is a little bit uncanny valley, because it looks like a dog, but it doesn't feel like a dog.
KAYLA: It's because it's not a dog.
SARAH: But they think that dogs evolved to have emotive eyebrows for the purposes of communicating with humans and/or that they were kind of selectively bred.
KAYLA: Yeah
[00:50:00]
SARAH: Because the ones that had more emotive eyebrows, people felt that they could connect better emotionally with because they felt like they were actually having a back and forth with them.
KAYLA: And that's why sometimes dogs' faces look too human, as they've evolved too far.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And now they have human eyes, and I hate that.
SARAH: But yeah, it's just so wild to me that she thinks that lizards have no feelings and that humans must fuck.
KAYLA: I hate this woman. I do think, bringing this back around town, thinking about the... yes?
SARAH: The daughter's best friend found the post.
KAYLA: Yay!
SARAH: Okay. “You're the asshole, and I'm surprised you had the gall to post this knowing she frequents Reddit. This is the best friend that texted you. You blocked my number, not that it matters. You know it wasn't about the reveal. It was an excuse to hold a party. We had fun without you. The lizard had an adorable tiny party hat.”
KAYLA: Aww
SARAH: “We had a cake that said, ‘it's a girl,’ and we popped a glittery sparkly party popper. It got all over the walls and ceiling, and our friend John. And we started making jokes like, “call the EMS for John.” And they do say gender reveals are dangerous. Who knew? But I'm sure she sent you the video so you know what you missed out on. We made fun of it for the most part and blasted ‘The Last of Us’ music since that's where Ellie's name comes from.”
KAYLA: Oh. That's funny.
SARAH: “Not because she wanted an excuse for her social anxiety.”
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: “She struggled with her identity for years, and you were never supportive. When she was trying to figure out if she was lesbian, you sat her down for 30 minutes and explained how it's normal to get feelings confused. But people weren't meant to like the same gender, and it was probably just friendship feelings she was confusing. You are part of the reason she never explored her sexuality further with your, “sex is natural,” and you can't have a relationship without sex,” comments. Knowing not only is she mildly autistic and already struggles to understand and comprehend her emotions, but she's also a victim of a negative experience. You know she has a codependency issue and living by herself has been really difficult for her to overcome, and Ellie has helped immensely. She was upset you didn't come when she wanted to see you because she adores you and you didn't even call her for Thanksgiving.”
KAYLA: Ooh
SARAH: Also, lizard tax because I know how Reddit is. Do you want to see pictures of Ellie?
KAYLA: Yes. Lizard, lizard, lizard.
SARAH: I'm going to… Sorry, this photo is slightly disturbing. I'm going to screen share with you
KAYLA: I'm scared.
SARAH: Describe what you see. Why is her mouth… I'm assuming she was eating something.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, it's a lizard, but the flash is really bright and there's some motion in its mouth.
SARAH: There's food jingling.
KAYLA: Aw, taking a nap, it’s a baby. I wanted to see with the party hat.
SARAH: I wanted to see the party hat too. Unfortunately, we don't have a party hat picked.
KAYLA: It's too bad. It's a lizard though.
SARAH: Anyway, that's the tea. This mom does not respect the sanctity of pets.
KAYLA: Or Lizards. Okay, bringing it around town.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Honestly, I think the best friend saying that the pet… Actually, I don't know if that goes with my point. Okay, anyway, bringing it around town. What all this makes me think of is that I think part of the major life satisfaction that comes with pets, meeting up with friends and family and spouses, is the aspect of the relationship that is taking care of someone. Right? Because compared to a human relationship, there are certain things that a pet cannot give back to you. Right?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But the act of caring for a living thing is I think probably where a lot of that life satisfaction comes from.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I don't know where I was going with this.
SARAH: Well, I'm feeling like that living thing cares you back, even if it's not in the same way that a human being can.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Even if you can't communicate in the same way that a human being can. Even if when my child scratches the fuck out of you when you're trying to cut her nails because you can't explain… She doesn't understand that you're trying to help her and she freaks the fuck out.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Yeah. One of the top comments, because those were the comments from the original post and then this was on the ‘BestofReddit,’ whatever subreddit. One of the top comments is, “I once hosted a carpet-warming party. It's like a housewarming party, but instead of getting a new house, I got two new carpets.”
KAYLA: Huge.
SARAH: “It was a silly joke, excuse to have a party, nobody complained, and we all had a good time.”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Also, this person says, “sorry, but OP is just glossing over the whole, I'm a carrier of a disease that made me miscarry four times and have a very sick child who died, and my daughter has the same gene, so that means she should have kids too!?”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: “OP is seven layers of fucked up, but those are the beans of the situation.”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And also, this person said, “the way that she wrote her very sad experience with pregnancies made me think she isn't processing her emotions and trauma properly, and she doesn't understand how to and therefore cannot relate to her daughter's fear of sexual intimacy and fear of getting pregnant and experience infant death or miscarriages.” We don't know that she has a fear of sexual intimacy, but I understand this person's point.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean, it definitely seems like the mom is not processing emotions at all.
SARAH: Yeah. Also, the people in the comments are mad that we didn't get a party hat picture.
KAYLA: Yeah, me too. Me too.
SARAH: “She has emotional baggage and feels unable to care for a real child. Geez, I wonder where on earth that emotional baggage, especially about child bearing, could possibly have come from.”
KAYLA: So crazy.
SARAH: “I have attended a funeral party for a teapot that started to rust.”
KAYLA: I love that.
SARAH: So, I don't know.
KAYLA: Pets, good.
SARAH: Pets, good. We need to end this episode.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Kayla, what's our poll for this week? Would you attend a skink’s gender reveal party?
KAYLA: Yeah, would you? What's the weirdest party you have attended?
SARAH: If you had 70,000 pounds more...
KAYLA: Would you get rid of your dog?
SARAH: Would you kill your pet?
KAYLA: How much money is your pet worth to you?
SARAH: I mean, if it was a question of like, you have to kill your pet for money. No, I won’t. No money. I’m not doing that.
KAYLA: Yeah, because that's fucked up.
SARAH: That's my child. It’s my baby.
KAYLA: How many European pounds?
SARAH: European pounds?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Well, the UK is not in Europe anymore.
KAYLA: Yeah, but you know, it is. Like on the map.
SARAH: Yeah. Legally. Geographically.
KAYLA: It's in the continent.
SARAH: Well, it's next to the continent.
KAYLA: But you know, so is...
SARAH: It's a generally understood part of the continent.
KAYLA: So is Hawaii, but it's not its own continent just because it's not attached to North America.
SARAH: Well, it depends on how we're defining continents. Anyway, I actually don't know how we define continents, so I could be wrong. Anyway, don't look that up right now, Sarah. Look that up later. Okay. Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My beef is that I have to sleep-train my fucking cat. My other beef is graduations. I don't think we should do them anymore.
SARAH: Ah!
KAYLA: I don't know if y'all have ever thought about what goes into planning a graduation for thousands and thousands of people.
SARAH: Yeah, specifically you're talking about the graduation put on by the university for all of the students?
KAYLA: Yes. Not even all of them. Just even some of them.
SARAH: Yours is just the law school, right?
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean there is one for every single student, but I don't plan that.
SARAH: Yeah, thank God.
KAYLA: But I am one of the very few people that plans the law school commencement. And y'all? What?
SARAH: Well, at least it's… I mean, yes, graduating law school is a big deal, but I feel like undergrad commencement is a bigger deal because it's your first degree.
KAYLA: You would think that, wouldn't you?
SARAH: Are the law school people just, like, nutsies?
KAYLA: It's not, uh…
SARAH: She's thinking. She's thinking about how to phrase this without losing her job.
KAYLA: People…
SARAH: People are passionate.
KAYLA: Are very passionate.
SARAH: Well, they think that going to Harvard Law School is very important and should be celebrated because they've watched Legally Blonde.
KAYLA: Sure. I'll say no more.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: My juice is I had such a fun princess party.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Everyone should go to my Instagram and look at the pictures, I made such a nice hat.
SARAH: Such a nice hat. Dean's hat was underwhelming.
KAYLA: But his outfit!
SARAH: His outfit was great, though.
KAYLA: It was really good. His outfit was really good. Yeah.
SARAH: Sad to not be there. What would I have worn?
KAYLA: I don't know. What would your princess outfit have been?
SARAH: Tinkerbell.
[01:00:00]
KAYLA: Mm.
SARAH: I was Tinkerbell for Halloween three separate times.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And to this day, I don't know why. Because, like, I wasn't, like, a Peter Pan stan. I wasn't, like, as a character, she's a bitch.
KAYLA: Yeah. Yes.
SARAH: I did really enjoy the 2003 live action Peter Pan, but that wasn't because of Tinkerbell. She's a real bitch in that one.
KAYLA: Did you ever get into, like, the animated Tinkerbell?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: I love that shit.
SARAH: My main reason for liking the 2003 Peter Pan was because I wanted to be Jeremy Sumpter as Peter Pan.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, I don't know why I was Tinkerbell three separate times for Halloween.
KAYLA: Well, that's what you would have been, I guess.
SARAH: Yeah, I would have had to be Tinkerbell.
KAYLA: Harry was…
SARAH: Spider…
KAYLA: I don't know if you could really see it in any of the pictures. They had a Spiderman onesie on, but, like, also a pink skirt. Because they were going as, like, the little boy who was invited to the princess party, but, like, refused to take off their Superman outfit.
SARAH: Yeah. So real.
KAYLA: So, just wore a skirt over it. That was their approach, which was very good.
SARAH: Quality stuff.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: My beef is… I'm allergic to my cat, we know this.
KAYLA: Wait, I have another beef.
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: I have this really itchy part on my neck, and it's near a mole, and I have had this mole my whole life, but it's looking different lately, so that's concerning. And I keep itching it, but, like, my skin is really sensitive, so if I itch anywhere on my skin, it turns red super-fast. So, I've been itching… I was itching at it, I guess, this weekend, or, like, in my sleep, and it looks like I have a hickey. I don't. I've just been itching. And so now I've been having to, like, cover it with makeup, because I don't want to, like, go to work, and people will be like, “ew, a hickey.” I just don't… it's just itchy is all.
SARAH: It's just itchy. Not a hickey, just an itchy.
KAYLA: I need a sign that's, like, ‘it's just an itch.’
SARAH: I ain't.
KAYLA: Just a mildly concerning itch, is all.
SARAH: Oh, no. Well, speaking of itches, my beef is… okay, so we've established I'm allergic to my cat.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: You know, you can… people who are allergic to cats and dogs are also often allergic to their saliva.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: We've established my cat likes to bite me.
KAYLA: Mm.
SARAH: So, recently, I guess I did not wash my hands… and also, like, it gets kind of itchy when she bites me, but I thought that was just because she was, like, biting me.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But the other day, I got so… the places where she has bit me got so itchy, and I could not stop myself from scratching it when I was like half asleep, that they like turned into hives.
KAYLA: Oh, that's nice.
SARAH: And my ankle is really itchy right now still at this moment.
KAYLA: Mm.
SARAH: And so, I do think I'm actually going to have to start taking allergy medication, because the face in the sinuses, that is tolerable.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But I have been so itchy recently.
KAYLA: Do you think I'm itchy because you're itchy?
SARAH: We do only have one brain cell.
KAYLA: This is what I'm thinking. Like, I've been so itchy.
SARAH: I… yeah. I feel like, in general, I'm a somewhat an itchy person. I think it's just because of my skin type.
KAYLA: I believe you've infected me with your itchy.
SARAH: I'm scratching right now.
KAYLA: I believe I've been infected with the itch.
SARAH: So, luckily, the hives have pretty much gone away. Anyway, my juice is, I got my cat a new scratcher thing that's very tall.
KAYLA: It is very tall. This is true.
SARAH: With the hopes that she will stop scratching my couch or scratch my couch less. And I hope it works.
KAYLA: I just had to get a couch with a new texture. I mean, that was not the main reason I got a new couch, but getting a new texture of couch was very helpful for that.
SARAH: Luckily for Miss Addy, the couch had already been torn up a decent bit by Bogey.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, we can’t only be blaming her.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: You can tell us about your beef, your juice, your thoughts on skink tongues on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you want to support us there. We have our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week, they are Scott Ainslie, Simon, Snordstorm, Sofia P and Tall_Darryl. I think I've said this before, but I have very strong memories of, in Nordstrom as a child, the sound that their phones make. It's like beep bop boop. It's that series of notes.
KAYLA: How often were you in the Nordstrom as a child?
SARAH: Not that often.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: But it's in there. I don't remember most of my childhood, but that…
KAYLA: You remember that.
SARAH: Is there.
KAYLA: Didn't we have a new $5?
SARAH: Not a new $5.
KAYLA: No?
SARAH: Yes, a new $5.
KAYLA: Oops.
SARAH: I didn't highlight it properly. Where did I put you? I know I added you, but now you're not here. Where did you go?
KAYLA: I don't know.
SARAH: Oh, I put you in the $2.
KAYLA: Noooo.
SARAH: That's not where you go. Our new $5 patron is Lindsay. Thank you, Lindsay, and sorry that I put you in the wrong spot on the dock. Thank you for joining the party. We appreciate you. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Kayla's dad, who would like to promote JandiCreations.com, and also pretty sticky princess parties. Maff, who would like to promote the Don't Should Sweatshirt. Martin Chiesl, who would like to promote his podcast, Everyone’s Special and No One Is. Purple Hayes, who would like to promote the musician Vinther. And Barefoot Backpacker, who would like to promote their YouTube channel, rtwbarefoot. Our other $10 patrons are SongOStorm, Val, Alastor, Ani, Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, Clare Olsen, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, Eric, my aunt Jeannie, and Johanna. Our $15 patrons are Ace, who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer, Nathaniel White, NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com. Kayla’s Aunt Nina, who would like to promote katemaggartart.com. And Schnell, who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Dragonfly, Dr. Jacki, My Mom, and River, who would like to promote the fact that this episode didn't intend to be so long. But…
KAYLA: But here we are.
SARAH: Here we are. Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your lizards.
SARAH: Skink!
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]