Ep 269: Compulsory Heterosexuality
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SARAH: Hey, what's up, hello? Welcome to sounds fake, but okay a podcast where an aroace girl. I'm Sarah, that's me
KAYLA: and a bi demisexual girl, that's me Kayla
SARAH: talk about everything to do with love, relationships, sexuality and pretty much anything else we just don't understand
KAYLA: On today's episode compulsory heterosexuality
SARAH AND KAYLA: Sounds fake, but okay.
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod!
KAYLA: I'm in my bed.
SARAH: Kayla's in her bed. It's a bed cast. Not for me though.
KAYLA: Not for you though So, there's three extra people in my house
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: And two of them are sleeping in my office and they're not sleeping in there yet, but I don't want to be in there if they want to sleep
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: and also like their luggage is in there. So I'm like
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: I don't want to be all up in your spit You know what? I mean, it's not my space anymore.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: You've taken it. So. Yeah I'm out of my bed now
SARAH: Okay. Well, our housekeeping is that this is the last pod before we go on a little breaky break.
KAYLA: It's over last episode ever last episode ever
SARAH: All caps. What if we title?
KAYLA: What if that's what we did? What if when we were finally done with this podcast, we're like, yeah. We're just going on like summer break and then we just fell off the face of the earth SARAH: kind of like One Direction did?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I'm going to a One Direction club night this weekend.
KAYLA: That's very exciting.
SARAH: Yeah But yeah, that is exactly what one direction did they're like, we're going on hiatus And then they never came back
KAYLA: one day when we stop this I would like us to do it in the most dramatic fashion possible. I think it should be an event.
SARAH: our last podcast
KAYLA: It should be an event.
SARAH: Okay, cool.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: But yes, this is our last pod We're going to take a couple weeks off and then we'll be back on a date Which I will tell you as soon as I can pull it off on my calendar. That it will it will uh, we we will be back on August 27th
KAYLA: It's true. We will
SARAH: So prepare your ears
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: Who's this person? Why is this person's birthday in my calendar? I don't know who you are
KAYLA: Do you ever smell the inside of your nose?
SARAH: No
KAYLA: you're like I can smell it
SARAH: I think this is a person my boss knows. Why is it in my calendar?
KAYLA: Maybe it's a nose ring thing, but like I can smell what my nose smells like.
SARAH: It might be, it might be because if there's a if there's a metal in your nose
KAYLA: I can just I can smell what my nose smells like
SARAH: Anyway, this is what you're going to be missing the next month
KAYLA: So what are you going to do without it?
SARAH: I mean you can listen to the news. I mean you can listen to our old podcasts You can read our book and listen to our book podcasts. You can do nothing.
KAYLA: That's true. Did you guys know we wrote a book feel like we haven't talked about it in a minute, but we have a book and you should probably buy it
SARAH: and just an update for everyone. We did figure out we are going to get paid. I mean we didn't ever think we weren't gonna get paid. But now we we've figured out
KAYLA: And by figured out sarah means I reread our contract
SARAH: Kayla read the contract
KAYLA: And it was funny rereading it because it's not like we didn't understand it when we signed it like we. We knew you know, we got it
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: but there was like a lot of words in there that like didn't really mean anything to me at the time but now, several years later after having done a bunch of book stuff. I'm like, oh. Like not to say I didn't get the contract when I signed it, but like now I get it more
SARAH: you get it better.
KAYLA: Do you know what I’m saying?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: so I reread it and I understood a lot more
SARAH: I love that for you
KAYLA: of my rights and we are gonna get paid which we always knew but now we know when
SARAH: we know when
KAYLA: Now I remember and we always knew had we just reread the contract.
SARAH: We just neglected to
KAYLA: we just didn't do that, which I think is fine
SARAH: anyway. Uh, shall we talk about a podcast?
KAYLA: Oh, we're gonna talk about a podcast
SARAH: shall we podcast?
KAYLA: Yeah, which one do you, which one do you want to talk about?
SARAH: I think we should talk about normal gossip because I've really gotten into it
KAYLA: I have talked about this podcast of sarah's for so long and she finally started and she was like when are we gonna be guests on it
SARAH: it was it wasn't even because of you that I started it was because of just like Jen from the golden ratio
KAYLA: You know what? I get how you feel now about k-pop.
SARAH: Yeah. Yeah. Kayla, would you like to – okay, I'm sorry. This really shouldn't go at the beginning of the podcast, but I don't care. Kayla, would you like to tell the kids what you've done?
KAYLA: Okay, it's I haven't even done it yet. I've just thought about doing it
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KAYLA: But I've heard a couple songs by stray kids and I like them. So I was like, oh there's a cat and so I was like, oh it it might be time to get into k-pop and the the reason I heard a stray kids song and at all was because. Of Julien, Jenna Marbles’s husband was playing some of their songs on stream
SARAH: Julien comma Jenna Marbles’s husband Julien Marbles’s.
KAYLA: I just feel I just feel like that's probably how most people know him. Yeah to me. He's my father And my son and my boyfriend and my husband and my holy spirit and my jesus christ, but I know he's not that to everyone anyway he was playing some on stream and I was like, oh I know bops and I was like maybe it's time to become a stay and Sarah was like if you become a k-pop stan because of julian and instead of me
SARAH: Also, here's the thing I I am I don't consider myself a stay but I a stay being a fan of
KAYLA: Stray kids, yes
SARAH: but I have a lot of friends who are and it's It's one of those things where it's just like one of these days. I'll I'll fully fall down the rabbit hole I just haven't yet.
KAYLA: One day
SARAH: and I have nothing against them I am just if you get into stray kids through julian solomita when I have had bts tattooed across my forehead for several years. I will kill myself
KAYLA: That's fair. However, I did give you the opportunity to make me a small bts playlist and you have not done so yet
SARAH: I got overwhelmed by it. So you will be receiving that in um
KAYLA: a year, perhaps
SARAH: three, three to 300 business days
KAYLA: Okay. Well, I just want to say it's out of my hands now. I gave you the opportunity to turn me. So you really can't complain
SARAH: anyway this week, we're talking about compulsory heterosexuality
KAYLA: I love Sarah was like, okay, we really need here's some silly talk topics we could talk about, but we should really do like a serious one before we leave and I think that's going
SARAH: Going really well
KAYLA: I think I think it's good How it's going.
SARAH: I mean one of the silly topics that I did suggest was lizards, which isn't really a topic
KAYLA: No, that's just…
SARAH: neither of us are informed enough
KAYLA: An animal
SARAH: about lizards for it to be a topic
KAYLA: I think when they, when their tail gets bit off they grow a new one
SARAH: Supposedly, that's what happens with our tongues, but I've also heard that's also not true
KAYLA: I know someone who had part of their tongue cut out. So I guess I could ask
SARAH: Anyway, we're talking about compulsory heterosexuality
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: comphet, as the kids say
KAYLA: They do
SARAH: and we've talked about we talked about compulsory sexuality just in general in the context of Sherronda J Brown's book. If you haven't read it if you haven't –
KAYLA: what are you doing?
SARAH: acquired it, what have you done with your life? we talked about that last 2022. I believe it was the… third quarter 2022 maybe the fourth quarter. I'm not sure
KAYLA: I have absolutely no idea. I have no sense of time
SARAH: I only know because I was uh looking it up today because I wanted to make sure we hadn't talked about compulsory heterosexuality before but I want to talk more specifically about comphet. Because I feel like it's been a thing in the zeitgeist. And I think we should talk about it and I have just some thoughts. They're not well formed, but I have them
KAYLA: good
SARAH: so. Shall we begin by defining it?
KAYLA: I think that's probably good.
SARAH: Okay. Compulsory heterosexuality often shortened to comphet is the theory that heterosexuality is assumed and enforced upon people by a patriarchal and heteronormative society
KAYLA: Boo
SARAH: It's basically allonormativity, but for hetero
KAYLAL heterosexuality, yes
SARAH: it's hetero normativity, but specifically… like internal as well.
KAYLA: Yes, it is. Yes.
SARAH: It's not just it being enforced upon to you. It's about you in your head also enforcing it upon yourself
KAYLA: Yes, because it's so ingrained that you also then not just society, but you also enforce it upon yourself.
SARAH: the term is popularized by Adrienne Rich in her 1980 essay titled compulsory heterosexuality and lesbian existence. It's it's really related to lesbian, the lesbian story, I think that's often the way that it's discussed
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And the way that I've heard a lot of people talk about it online is lesbians talking about their own experience with comphet or being like. Is this comphet or am I actually attracted to this person?
KAYLA: Yeah, I think the way I hear it talked about a lot is like the lesbian master doc.
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KAYLA: Which is like
SARAH: I have that open on my computer right now.
KAYLA: I have never read it actually
SARAH: But well because when I when I looked up comphet. The first thing that came up was comphet google doc. So yeah. I actually have that pulled up in front of me as we speak. KAYLA: How long is it?
SARAH: It's in like website form. So. I don't know. Because it is a google doc, but it's like a published
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: thing. But it's just very interesting. You know it says compulsory is the opposite of optional. Women are taught from a very early age that making men happy is our job. So what happens if you want to be with women, and what happens if you're not attracted to men at all? When you're trained from childhood to see romantic and sexual relationships with men and only men as major life goals, how do you separate that from what you want? Compulsory heterosexuality is the voice in my head that says I must really be het even when I'm in love with a woman. It's what forces lesbians to struggle through learning the difference between what you've been taught to want, being with men, and what you do want, being with women, which is why so many lesbians have dated men at some point blah blah blah blah, how do I know I'm a lesbian blah blah blah blah. This was the thing that I found interesting and I think really relates to the way that I've heard people talk about it, which is but I like fictional men/male celebrities.
KAYLA: Hm. Yeah
SARAH: because I feel like so many times so often I hear people being like maybe this is just because I operate in like bts twitter circles is like like ike that's and that's a whole other thing which I've dipped a tiny toe into on this podcast but like people are like, oh like am I actually attracted to this man? Like am I actually or am I just like I'm assigning this to them, you know?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: and so this the lesbian master master doc says lesbians are allowed to like male celebrities and fictional characters. It's usually a symptom of compulsory heterosexuality. Male celebrities/fictional characters are completely unattainable crushes and thus it allows the lesbian in question to distance themselves from men. Because it's impossible to ever be with that person they get to avoid the romance and intimacy. Which is usually something that girls can recognize they don't want with men but can't exactly place why or what it means. Even if the attraction to male celebrities/fictional characters is not an effective compulsory heterosexuality, which would be really hard to figure out, it's not fair that straight women can have quote girl crushes and straight men can have man crushes without anyone telling them they can't be or aren't straight anymore but the reverse should not be applied to lesbians I think it's interesting to use the term symptom. It's a symptom of compulsive.
KAYLA: Yeah, that is very interesting
SARAH: That word, I was bumping on that word a little bit. It's just so interesting because like when I, when I hear people talk about this when I read stuff like this, it's exactly the same as the asexual experience
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: It's just directed in a different way
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: like the aspec experience is just a little bit broader in that it's like oh, I am not experiencing attraction at all or… I'm not experiencing attraction consistently or blah blah blah, whereas this is a situation that's like specifically not about men and is about being attracted to women, but I… and so I just I was thinking about this in the car as I was driving home
KAYLA: Oh in the car
SARAH: in the car and it just reminds me of, you know, when you hear aspec people talk about not being able to tell like romantic and sexual attraction apart from like platonic attraction or like squishes, and I feel like that's essentially what a lot of times like liking men or male celebrities in the context of comphet is because it's just like oh, I really like this person. I assume that it must be like actual, a certain type of attraction because that's what I'm told that it should be so you just assign that, even if it's not necessarily and it just it parallels to me so much of like my own personal experience. Just like in a parallel universe
KAYLA: Yeah, because I think… I don't know. What was I going to say? Hold on.
SARAH: She doesn't think
KAYLA: Shut up. Shut up. Oh, like along the lines of like you talking about trying to figure out the difference between like is it a squish? Do I have a crush on this person? Is it sexual attraction especially for I feel like when you're trying to figure out if you are aspec.
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: I think…
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KAYLA: especially when you're a woman when you are drawn to a man in some way you just automatically assume like oh well it must be a crush because that's what you're taught to assume.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: but you don't have that assumption, for women you're like, oh I'm very drawn to this other woman like I must like your automatic assumption is like we're gonna be best friends it doesn’t…
SARAH: we’re going to be besties!
KAYLA: I feel like automatically cross your mind at least? Like I know for you you've talked about like when you were trying to figure out your romantic orientation you were like well. But like maybe I maybe these things I've experienced have been crushes in the past. Like I'm not sure but were any of those women?
SARAH: No
KAYLA: Yeah, see that's what I'm like. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It's like it's so much easier. Not easier, but it's just so much it happens so much more often where that confusion happens with like the opposite gender because that's the roles we’re taught
SARAH: your brain just doesn't assign. Yeah, your brain just doesn't assign that that thinking process this that thought process to women in the same way that it defaults to that with men when you are a woman
KAYLA: Well, and for me specifically as like a demisexual person and coming into like biromanticism and I wrote about this. I contributed to a bi-zine a couple months ago. I don't remember what it's called
SARAH: Bi all means
KAYLA: Bi all means! yes! I contributed to the zine and I kind of like adapted the episode we did on like being biromantic and demisexual, but part of what I talked about in my submission was that say me and dean broke up or say like I started dating women. I don't even know how it would go about that as a demisexual person. Because for me interacting with men, it's very clear for me to see like, okay, this is a man I like have a crush on this is a man who I'm just friends with I can feel it growing into like growing into like more I can feel like getting into the territory of like sexual attraction. And there's a lot of women in my life that I've been very emotionally close with but that sexual attraction has never like really come with any of them?
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: But it's like is that because I wasn't attracted to them or because I wasn't like in the headspace to allow that to happen? Do you know what I mean?
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: because I wasn't like in the dating headspace because I didn't think I was attracted to women
SARAH: Right or like was it just that you weren't attracted in that way to that particular woman like it's…
KAYLA: right.
SARAH: It's so complicated
KAYLA: Like how do you know? Because I like when I was growing up. I was taught how to interface with men in like a dating in a romantic way. I wasn't taught that for women. So it's like how do you, Like I don't even how do I be close to a woman in a way that is not… you know what I mean? I'm like I've had so many female friendships in my life that are like emotionally close and the thing about demisexuality is like oh you become sexually attracted to someone when you're emotionally close to them and it's like, okay, but like, what's the difference, you know? For men it just like I you know
SARAH: when does close friendship become sapphic?
KAYLA: Right. And like for some I like I couldn't explain when close friendship becomes attraction with men like I just know it. I just like know it. I couldn't explain it but like I have close guy friends that I'm not attracted to but it just is that way. Because that's the way I was taught. But I wasn't taught that with women.
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: So now I'm like, huh, do you see what I mean? I don't
SARAH: (laughing) I think I think I see what you mean.
KAYLA: All I'm saying is if I after if I ever ever date women, it's gonna be a confusing time for everyone, I think
SARAH: Yeah, and as you ask the question about me like being like, oh is this a crush like if that had ever happened with a woman and it's interesting because like, you know when you like take those like quizzes, they're like how gay am I?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: There was one that I took, you know past couple weeks that it it was like an axis, so on one side
KAYLA: Oh that’s fun.
SARAH: Yeah, so on one side it was only attracted to men only attracted to women and then the other axis was allo to ace
KAYLA: oh fun
SARAH: and obviously, I was very much in the ace direction, but I leaned a lot more in the women direction than I expected to
KAYLA: Interesting
SARAH: like it it wasn't like, all the way like it wasn't you know, but like
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I – it leaned a lot more in that direction than I expected to which like looking back on it makes sense.
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SARAH: Men are scary. Why are dicks
KAYLA: They are
SARAH: dicks? No. But and but the fact that that surprised me I mean granted it's a silly quiz, but like the fact that that surprised me, I think had a lot to do with the fact that like the what like two times I was like oh, was that a crush? It was with a guy.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: it makes me rethink like would I have thought that same way if that male friend was a female friend? and I
KAYLA: yeah
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't because we're just not taught to think that way like it's an unlearning process like to even see and maybe it's like different for people that are younger who are like or in more like open areas, I guess but like for me, I didn't really learn about gay people or was not around gay openly gay people. I wasn't around openly gay people until college like there's people that I knew in high school that came out after high school
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: So like for me, it didn't even it wasn't even an option. It wasn't like a thing. I was even thinking about like as a thing. So then it's like if you don't think of it as an option, you're not going to be like looking for it
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: or question. You know what I mean?
SARAH: (laughing) Well, and in this, in this lesbian google doc
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: There's a section and it's talking about like signs of compulsory heterosexuality. So under the attraction to men section. It says like deciding which guys to be attracted to not to date but to be attracted to based on how well they match a mental list of attractive qualities
KAYLA: (laughing) That's such an aspec thing to do.
SARAH: That's exactly what I thought as I was reading this.
KAYLA: That's what makes like comphet and comp like allo go together so well is like you think about
SARAH: about comphet is just a more specific type of comp allo
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah. So I think a lot of aspecs have had the experience of like picking a crush to fit in right? I would love to see data on like did you pick a crush that made you straight or did you pick a crush that made you not straight, you know? or like
SARAH: I mean I only ever picked crushes that made me straight
KAYLA: right and I wonder if it would be like if it would change depending on who you were like faking it for
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: like if you're in a group of straight friends. Would you be like oh I too am a straight if you're in a group of queer friends? Would you be more likely to like quote unquote make yourself queer? You know what I mean?
SARAH: That's a really interesting question that I had actually never thought about before because and I think that is also a symptom of comphet because in my brain
KAYLA: Yes because in my mind I was like, oh,
SARAH: of course, I would say a straight crush. Like I was never in a situation where it would be because it would be a whole event if I made up a crush that was a girl because that would be a thing because then they’d think I was gay
KAYLA: And the event is what you're. Yeah, the event is what you're trying to avoid by making up a crush. Yeah.
SARAH: So yeah, that's really interesting. But some other stuff under the attraction to men signs. I like the idea of being with a man, but anytime a man makes a move on me, I get incredibly uncomfortable, I do not like the reality of men only the idea of being with men. I like the idea of marrying a man or being in a relationship with a man, but I can always pick out a reason to not want to date any man that is interested in me or any man suggested to me. These reasons are sometimes reasonable but often insignificant. The examples it gives are I don't like guys who do their hair like that. He has a weird mole on his face, and he's too tall. Oh, see, I don't know.
KAYLA: I've heard a lot of straight women who are definitely straight who have given those reasons for not liking a man. But
SARAH: yeah, I can fantasize about men and find men attractive but thinking about realistically being with a man makes my stomach turn. All of these things, if you replace man with person
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: is just huge aspec vibes
KAYLA: Yeah, all of this feels like very familiar in an aspec way which makes sense, I guess right? Like this doc is like you aren't attracted to men and the aspec version would be like you are not attracted to anyone. So like it makes sense.
SARAH: Right. It makes sense, but it also just like reminds you of like the real connection between aspec identities and other queer identities. I think really especially lesbians. Like
KAYLA: Oh, yeah
SARAH: sometimes sometimes the gays are like in their own little world like the male gays.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: the male gays
KAYLA: male gays. Not
KAYLA: yes
SARAH: not their gaze
KAYLA: Do you remember in college where we would play the game of which one am I saying?
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: good game, um
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SARAH: and I feel like there is such a strong connection between lesbians and aspecs and obviously there are people who are both and I think that also is informed as well by a disproportionate amount of female identifying people or female socialized people
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: identifying as aspec, but it's just like another just like drop in the bucket of like yeah, we do belong here because it's the same fucking experience. It's the fucking same
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But yeah as the more I was thinking about it the more I was just like wow, this is just this is comphet is allonormativity, but directed more specifically at men. That's it.
KAYLA: Yes. Yeah, it's yeah a lot of it is so similar. It's just yes directed towards a more specific experience
SARAH: And then like it goes on to like under signs of compulsory heteronormativity, relationships with men. You know, getting a boyfriend mostly so other people know you have a boyfriend and not really being interested in him romantically or sexually. After a breakup missing having a boyfriend more than you miss the specific guy you were with
KAYLA: tea
SARAH: Worrying that you're broken inside and unable to really love anyone
KAYLA: oop
SARAH: oop. Sex and intimacy with men. Having sex not not out of desire for the physical pleasure or emotional closeness because you like feeling wanted
KAYLA: I mean, I feel like that's a lot of what comphet is about, is that we as women are brought up to want male attention, like that is what you are taught
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: is validating like if a boy doesn't have a crush on you or like you're not getting his attention then like something must be wrong with you. And so I feel like even for women who are like very secure in their like lesbian identity, like sometimes it's like oh yay, a male like, you know, like it's just somehow it still feels good when a man like praises you or wants you
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: because that's just like so deeply ingrained in like
SARAH: yeah, yeah
KAYLA: what we're supposed to want
SARAH: there's a line here. It says thinking that you don't like or pursue sex with men because you must be asexual or vice versa with romance for men. That is wild. I'm sure that has happened to someone somewhere, but I would love to exist in a world where asexuality is so well known
KAYLA: I actually have seen a lot of TikToks lately
SARAH: really?
KAYLA: of people either saying that like they had such a terrible boyfriend that they thought they must be asexual, but it turned out he was just like a terrible person they weren't attracted to
SARAH: yeah
KAYLA: or that they turned out to be a lesbian. I have actually I have actually seen this on TikTok several
SARAH: interesting
KAYLA: Yeah, I feel like you
SARAH: men do better
KAYLA: like asexuality is obviously not like a gateway or like a passing through community, but I do feel like there are a good amount of people who do pass through asexuality.
SARAH: Some people use it as a stepping stone
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: in the same way that some people will use the identity like the identity as bisexual as a stepping stone to lesbian. Some people might actually truly believe that they're bisexual and then that shifts and change and then they're like actually no now I am lesbian, but some people just kind of use it as a transition to, you know, get themselves used to it and feel more comfortable with it and like asexuality can be that I think for some people as well and that’s valid
KAYLA: Yeah, well, I think a lot of the reason that happens with bisexuality is because of comphet like
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: In a way, it is easier to say that you are bisexual it is more like if you think about it in like a coming out to your family terms. Your family gets to be like, oh you could still be with a man. Not that any of this is okay
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: like it's all very fucked up.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But like it makes sense that in a comphet way, it is easier to tell yourself. Maybe like oh no, but I do still like men
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: like that is still a possibility, and the more you kind of unlearn comphet and stuff, you might realize like, okay, the male part of my bisexuality was not attraction, but these other things
SARAH: right
KAYLA: Obviously though bisexuality and asexuality are real things. But for some people
SARAH: spoken by a bi and an ace person
KAYLA: Who would have thought?
SARAH: (laughing) just wanted to put it on the record
KAYLA: Just saying. But like just because things are like can be passing through identities for people. Just I feel like that's an argument people make of like, oh, it's not real. Like it's just a gateway whatever like no it can be both, and that's fine.
SARAH: Yeah, that's like saying that like Christianity is a gateway drug to Mormonism like what? Like that doesn't make sense.
KAYLA: You're straight up. It doesn't. There's no logic there.
SARAH: But like that like if you went from being like
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SARAH: Agnostic to Lutheran and then you became Mormon after that and someone was like, well, you just used Lutheranism
KAYLA: Well, no one does that
SARAH: no one does that, listen
KAYLA: It's also not a good analogy because that's not how religion works
SARAH: give me a better one. Give me a better one
KAYLA: Okay, hold on. I'm thinking. Like vegetarian to vegan because some people will be like before they go vegan. They'll just be vegetarian. And it's like but that doesn't make being a vegetarian any like less good
SARAH: No, but I don't think that's quite the same.
KAYLA: Okay, well, it's better than yours
SARAH: because it's, it makes more sense than mine, but I don't think it's better
KAYLA: Mm. Okay, it's like
SARAH: I think they get it.
KAYLA: No, no, it's like how people will start where they start drinking coffee. They'll drink the very sugary drinks.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: And then eventually people will transition to just drinking like black coffee, but that doesn't mean no one actually likes the sugary drinks
SARAH: Yeah… Well
KAYLA: uh huh
SARAH: but some some sometimes those people like don't drink black coffee at first because they don't like it
KAYLA: Yeah, I guess that's true.
SARAH: There is no good analogy. Anyway, can I read you this this little bit that I just made me giggle?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: In the lesbian Google Doc, this is in the sex and intimacy with men section about signs of comphet is your fantasies about men still somehow turn out to be a little gay.
KAYLA: That’s funny
SARAH: Maybe you're penetrating him. You don't have to look at him. You don't have to look at his face or don't want to look at his face. You want a threesome with another woman. He's very feminine, etc. It might be a quote-unquote straight fantasy, but you've altered it in a way straight people might not be totally interested in, which I think is very interesting
KAYLA: That’s funny
SARAH: And less in line with the average aspec experience, but very interesting.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's. Yeah, I can't really imagine an ace
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: analogy to that.
SARAH: But yeah, I also there's this other article. It was… So it's like how do I know if I'm naturally attracted or is it compulsory heterosexuality? And one of the things they said is have you felt or just to branch out sexually but stopped because you felt guilty. And I feel like that
KAYLA: I don’t get that. Feel guilty about what?
SARAH: That it's wrong that it's that it is. That it is
KAYLA: oh. Oh.
SARAH: not even necessary like it could mean like that it's wrong in general, but it could also just mean that it is wrong for you, you know?
KAYLA: I see. I see. Yes.
SARAH: Yeah, like it doesn't have to be like a religious
KAYLA: morally
SARAH: going to hell. So like this is not it's not me. Yeah, you don't think it should be you because you have been taught to believe that you must be a het
KAYLA: Yes well, it's also just like seems like a very scary thing because once you like take a step into like trying to figure out your sexuality, there's not like a ton going back, so that's also a hard first step to take because like
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: once you dip your little toe in. Unless you would decide like ah, just kidding. I was wrong.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: You're kind of kind of in it now.
SARAH: Yeah. I'm now on the Wikipedia page for comphet
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: and there's a section. Oh. Oh, it's bringing in white hegemony. It's that's very true like compulsory white heterosexuality.
KAYLA: Oh, yes. Yes, yes
SARAH: very valid
KAYLA I think that's
SARAH: a lot a lot of what’s in Sherronda’s book
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Yeah, but it says there's a section called factors and it says manifestations of male power. The idea the idea being comphet states that male dominance in a patriarchal society is a major factor in enforcing compulsory female heterosexuality that in order to serve men's needs. Heterosexuality requires men to force women into heterosexual relationships and marriage under a patriarchal society Kathleen Gogh. It's like doesn't – it's like Van Gogh, but without the van and British people call him Van Gogh (said Goff). Anyway Kathleen Gogh. Gogh argues that there are eight characteristics of male power in archaic and contemporary societies, which are rejecting women's sexuality, forcing male sexuality upon women exploiting, women's labor controlling or robbing women of their children, confining women physically, using women as objects for male transactions, denying women their creativity, and denying women from knowledge and cultural attainments
KAYLA: you know what this makes me think of?
SARAH: what?
KAYLA: you know how we're having like I feel like a renaissance
(35:00)
KAYLA: recently of like gay media
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: like you have like your heart stopper and your red white and royal blue movie and all of this stuff, but then every lesbian television show gets canceled
SARAH: Canceled
KAYLA: after one season. I've been thinking a lot recently about like… Why that is like what is it about… About lesbian relationships that is like so different from gay male relationships
SARAH: There is no man
KAYLA: That's like that's the only thing I've come down on is that like it's okay when it's two men, but then you see two women being independent together and it's like well. Hold on now.
SARAH: Yeah, and if it's in a way that's not fetishizing or not like
KAYLA: yes
SARAH: If it is if it is in a way that is not for the male gaze, which if it is a sapphic relationship, it shouldn't be for the male gaze
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: men can enjoy watching content about it, but it is not for their gaze in a sexual way.
KAYLA: It's just like even in spaces where like so many people still like frown upon queerness, even then it's like well if you're going to – if you have to do it at least just have the men do what they want
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: you know what I mean? Like okay fine if you have to go be gay
SARAH: right
KAYLA: Just let the men do it cuz men know better so they'll do it right or whatever
SARAH: Or for the girlies. It's just a little phase. They're just experimenting.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's just like bro
SARAH: Yeah, huh. This is a long Wikipedia page
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Okay, you know what I think is aphobic? In the see also section. We have biphobia, bisexual erasure, heteronormativity, heterosexism, heterosociality, liberal homophobia and monosexism
KAYLA: Is there even an allonormativity –
SARAH: No
KAYLA: Wikipedia page?
SARAH: Oh, I'm sure there is. Oh. Interesting. I didn't know what monosexism meant and it brought me to the biphobia page.
KAYLA: Oh, it's like you should only have attraction to one type of person. Is that what it is? No, that doesn't make sense
SARAH: Actually, so amatonormativity has its own page because of our girl Elizabeth Brale.
KAYLA: Yuh.
SARAH: allonormativity does not have. It's on Wikipedia page someone it has it has like a definition page
KAYLA: Yeah, but not like an actual somebody get on it.
SARAH: See also ace phobia, acephobia doesn't have… it's just a definition. Bruh
KAYLA: Someone get on someone get on it
SARAH: Acephobia parentheses uncountable. That's true. You cannot count all of the aphobia in this world
KAYLA: You know the white hegemony, hegemony?
SARAH: Hegemony?
KAYLA: hegemony?
SARAH: or hegemony depending on who you…
KAYLA: Hegemony. it really does make sense though because. Like I just keep thinking about all of like the mental images I've had as we're talking all like scenarios and stuff and part of it, I'm sure is because I'm a white person and so your mind automatically just imagines people that look like you
SARAH: also especially if most of the people you know are white people.
KAYLA: right which
SARAH: yeah
KAYLA: They are unfortunately.
SARAH: That's how the world is
KAYLA: Yeah, I guess but it's it is so true like there is like heterosexuality is seen as the quote-unquote right thing, but within that there's also a right way to do it. Like there's a right and a wrong way to be heterosexual
SARAH: right
KAYLA: like you know being polyamorous and heterosexual like not what you're supposed to do. It's supposed to be like a very white, very like the man is the leading person in the relationship, like there is a very right and wrong way to do it and what comphet teaches us is that it gets a very white very like middle class like there's this bit, you know?
SARAH: Yeah. Also, I'm looking at the amount of normativity Wikipedia page it it references compulsory sexuality, but you can't even click on compulsory sexuality whereas compulsory heterosexuality has its own page
KAYLA: Y’all. What are we doing? Someone? If anyone's bored you should really get on this
SARAH: Yeah, so. And the amatonormativity page is not robust.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean, I feel like beyond Elizabeth Brake, I don't know that there's been any like huge work on it. So.
SARAH: Yeah, but I feel like it's also just like such an overarching theme in aspec communities and aspec literature and aspec thought that I mean granted how are you going to put that in a Wikipedia page?
(40:00)
KAYLA: Well, I also think that like it's not like Wikipedia is the main place for queer people to go
SARAH: Oh certainly not
KAYLA: like a lot of these things are on like the LGBT wiki like
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: that's when we've done like microlabel episodes like that's where I get everything. So I'm sure on like like aspec wiki and things like that, there is much more robust information.
SARAH: I'm sure, but if we're looking at Wikipedia
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: the thing that's is accessible to everyone
KAYLA: Everyone. Yeah
SARAH: Are there countries Wikipedia is not available? Probably.
KAYLA: Well, I mean, it's only available to people with internet but yes
SARAH: that’s true. Yes, and people… hold on. Is Wikipedia blocked in any countries. Widespread censorship of Wikipedia has occurred in countries including but not limited to China, Iran, Myanmar, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey,, Uzbekistan, and Venezuela
KAYLA: Interesting. Well.
SARAH: Some instances are examples of widespread Internet censorship in general that includes Wikipedia content
KAYLA: Huh, the more you know
SARAH: and I got this from a Wikipedia page called Censorship of Wikipedia.
KAYLA: I love that
SARAH: Remember when we were in like middle school and high school and they were like Wikipedia is not a source?
KAYLA: It actually is a – well
SARAH: it's a good way to find sources
KAYLA: It actually is a well, that's the thing is like Wikipedia editors are like pretty serious about there being good sources on pages. So like yeah, maybe don't reference Wikipedia but scroll to the bottom
SARAH: scroll to find where they got that information from.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's like it's actually good like Wikipedia everyone's always like yeah but you can put anything on Wikipedia and that's not really true because you
SARAH: you can try
KAYLA: are like you can try but the editors are like not paid, but also working overtime.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: they're wild over there truly
SARAH: interesting I'm looking at like the examples of when Wikipedia was censored and a lot of them are like specific dates or specific time frames so like it was censored in Pakistan between February 3rd and February 6th of this year.
KAYLA: That's so weird
SARAH: So and then like saudi arabia is like 2000s through present select pages.
KAYLA: Huh
SARAH: like so they censor some of it.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Russia 2010 2010s
KAYLA: That makes more sense to me
SARAH: to prevent select pages promoting disinformation. Anyway
KAYLA: yes disinformation.
SARAH: You know Putin he loves to disinform
KAYLA: He he he he he he
SARAH: anyway comphet equals allonormativity, but more specifically directed and lesbians not being able to tell if they're actually attracted to men or if they just think they should be is a very aspec applicable experience also.
KAYLA: Yeah, yes. I mean obviously comphet affects aspec people a lot too because it's like also a major hurdle
SARAH: It is a part of allonormativity
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Yeah here's one one one thing I do and it's hit on. We've only really talked about it in the context of lesbians and women, people socialized as women
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Here I am asking, no one on this call is a man.
KAYLA: no
SARAH: no but like do men have as strong a comphet experience as women?
KAYLA: I don't know and I was thinking about that throughout the episode because I was like, yeah, we are talking mostly about women and I think that's often like just in general when people talk about comphet.
SARAH: Well, I think it also because it came from lesbian like academic circles.
KAYLA: Yeah. Yes but yeah, I don't know because I think a lot of the stuff about what comphet is is like looking for that validation from men and like being taught that we need to like rely on men, and that they like need to be part of our lives, but it's like if that's is that, is that applicable to me? Is that relatable?
SARAH: I mean it could be applicable. Well, it could be applicable in the sense of like you are looking for other men to validate your attraction to women
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So I'm very curious about that. That's going to. This is over now. We're on to a poll.
KAYLA: It’'s over. Shut up everyone. It's over
SARAH: Our poll this week is I want to hear about how people have experienced comphet in their lives whether they just learned the term or whether they have written the entire wikipedia page. and I’m, really curious to hear from people who are socialized as men about what your experience with comphet has been because not to be like we need to give the mic to men more, but like I am just really curious about that experience and where it falls in comparison to lesbians with comphet
(45:00)
SARAH: and, just like people without normativity, in all that jazz
KAYLA: Yeah, because truly I have no concept of it. I'm not a man
SARAH: Yeah,
KAYLA: and I don't know that i've really ever talked about it with one
SARAH: hard to imagine being one
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah, seems wild
SARAH: Kayla what's your beef in your juice for this week? Um
KAYLA: My beef is I'm so sore. I did. I did a well. Okay, I'll talk about my juice also.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Okay. So last weekend we went to New York and it was very fun. But it was a very action-filled weekend. I did my first soul cycle class. Oh. I did almost die
SARAH: went all the way to new york for a soul cycle
KAYLA: Yeah, I yeah, I just went to new york to do soul cycle at the bryant park location, but I did that
SARAH: all the best bikes are there
KAYLA: Oh also it was Taylor Swift theme. So that was fun. Anyway, and then the next day we did this silent disco and that is my juice, but Dean's brother and his brother's girlfriend every month do this thing called what the float. It's in LA too. You should look it up. It's very fun, but everyone gets headphones and you all listen to like the same DJ and then you just walk and dance down the street and like the music is synced up to the location, so like it's very choreographed of like how long it takes to walk places and like when to stop or whatever, and it was just so fun like just like dancing in the streets and having and in the parks and in the playgrounds and it was just so much fun. But it was like miles of walking and dancing and running. So I was very tired and then I decided for some reason yesterday to do pilates and then today I did yoga and I don't know why I did that because I'm also on my period which my other beef is that Sarah gave me my period. Sarah was sarah was texting me
SARAH: I was like am I pregnant with Jungkook's child? My period is like 6 days late
KAYLA: Sarah's like I'm the virgin mary I'm so late. And then as I was reading Sarah's texts, I was replying I sat down in the bathroom. And you know what I found? My period
SARAH: the bleed
KAYLA: As I was like texting Sarah back like yeah, you're definitely pregnant. I was like, well, you know, who's not definitely pregnant?
SARAH: me
KAYLA: Me! I was so mad. I was so mad.
SARAH: She was upset
KAYLA: I was like sarah no fucking way. So that's my other beef is like what the fuck man. Anyway, I'm done now
SARAH: My juice is the movie joyride. You can't you can't hear that yawn.
KAYLA: I was yawning. I didn't yeah, I was eating my microphone
SARAH: Oh, I see. I thought you were trying to yawn into the mic and I was like, you can't hear that.
KAYLA: It's a silent yawn
SARAH: Movie joyride, I think everyone should see it, my friend Nina was one of the on set writers for the movie, and three of her jokes, at least three that I know of made it into the movie
KAYLA: Damn
SARAH: and they're very funny, and it's just a good movie. I – have…Kayla? Have you seen this movie?
KAYLA: Yeah, I haven't
SARAH: I think you should because it's I'm, not usually like a raunchy comedy gal. Like I'm not a, I'm not a bridesmaids girlie. I'm not a 21 jump street girlie
KAYLA: 21 jump street isn't that raunchy. But yes, I understand
SARAH: Going to be honest with you I don't know that I've ever seen 21 jump street.
KAYLA: I actually think you would like it
SARAH: Alright. I retract that statement. I'm not a bridesmaids girlie.
KAYLA: Yeah. Yeah
SARAH: I think a lot of times too because like raunchy comedies are like they're raunchy because they're like they're about it's sex. It's about
KAYLA: very sexual. Yeah.
SARAH: Comphet, comphet.
KAYLA: What you gonna do?
SARAH: and this one it is like a little raunchy but also, we have a character that was honestly my queer, non-binary, autistic, Army icon
KAYLA: Wow, I can't believe you were in the movie.
SARAH: I know
KAYLA: That's so crazy that you were in the movie
SARAH: But like throughout the whole movie they referred to this character as she and then in the final scene, which is like a year, a year later they refer to them as they and I was like
KAYLA: That's going to be me, it's going to be me to you in a year.
SARAH: Go away.
KAYLA: Just kidding. LOL
SARAH: (laughing) Anyway, Joy Ride is a very good movie.
KAYLA: I think I'm so funny.
SARAH: I did cry during it. Which is a sign of a good movie.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: it's still it's got the emo. It's good. Anyway, see joyride, uh, because it's like an indie film support indie films. I'm also my other juice is I'm excited for the barbie movie.
(50:00)
KAYLA: Oh, I'm seeing it on saturday. I have my pink outfit. I'm ready.
SARAH: My cousin already saw it and she said it was so good.
KAYLA: How do people keep seeing it?
SARAH: It's Thursday night. It's out tonight. She’s in the east coast.
KAYLA: But some people saw it yesterday. Okay, but I keep I saw
SARAH: yeah, I know I I think I did I think I did see someone I know saw it yesterday. I saw so many movies are coming out earlier and earlier.
KAYLA: I don’t get it!
SARAH: Sometimes you can see movies at like midnight on Thursday then yeah
KAYLA: Whatever
SARAH: no, but my cousin saw it and really really liked it and apparently cried. I'm excited.
KAYLA: I can’t wait
SARAH: My beef is that my sickness came back. And as a result, I haven't been working out because I don't want to make my sickness work worse, but then also I'm not exercising
KAYLA: Yeah, that'll happen
SARAH: and my sickness came in also after I worked a ton which I think I talked about last week, but it was after I Worked out and I worked out pretty hard that day because it had been a rough day at work, and so I angry worked out.
KAYLA: She was angy. Um
SARAH: And then I got sick and so I was like what?
KAYLA: You know what my other juice is you're done now. You know what my other juice is?
SARAH: I am
KAYLA: (Italian accent) Attenzione pickpocket. Have you seen this?
SARAH: No
KAYLA: Uh, okay. I only learned about it like yesterday, but there's this woman. There's this italian woman who walks around italy and gets mad at pickpockets and she goes attenzione pickpocket and she yells at them.
SARAH: I love her
KAYLA: and so people use the audio when their cats are like stealing food from their plates is attenzione pick-pocket. I cannot believe
SARAH: y'all
KAYLA: so funny.
SARAH: Kayla. Uh, not Kayla people of the internet listening to us. Kayla didn't know about the Missile is very tired
KAYLA: I have no idea. I still don't know. I didn't
SARAH: watch the video watch it right now
KAYLA: Okay, I was with I was in a restaurant so I was I couldn't just okay
SARAH: I was quoting it a hat and she was like, she's like what the fuck are you literally was so confused?
KAYLA: Okay, I'll watch it. Oh, hold on. Okay, he is eepy
(TikTok Audio): the Missile has had a very long day of splashing bandits and wants to take just a small sleepy. He eepy and neebies to sleebie Missile sleepy and need bed bye time. The missile is currently experiencing critical levels of being a sleeby little guy and needs to go to bed. He is retired and needs to slep just a little sleepy time as a treat Missile needs to slep a tired boyo. Just a little guy. He needs his sleeby. Look at him go. He yawned because he's sleeby, neebies to fall asleep nee nee time. Good night. Mr. missile
KAYLA: Okay. My biggest takeaway from this video is the deep breathing happening between every sentence. Have you have you
SARAH: I have not noticed that
KAYLA: just the between every Okay. Well now can I play you the attenzione?
(audio): Attenzione pickpocket
SARAH: Sure.
KAYLA: Okay. Anyway, so everyone whole account is just just yelling at pickpockets. And now people have started to recognize her on the streets attention pickpocket lady. And but now she's mad because people are using the audio for political reasons and she's like I'm just I'm just or people pretending to be pickpockets. She means the cats. I scream to warn citizens and tourists that people are circulating who are part of a criminal organization, so stop misusing the audio but also don't it's so funny.
SARAH: Yeah, and also if you don't know the missile is very tired.
KAYLA: I need you to go back and rewatch that video and pay attention to the breathing
SARAH: Okay, I will
KAYLA: it's concerning to be honest
SARAH: because it's been going around people are just it's a lot of cat videos. Just like people are putting cat videos and photos with it, but the original
KAYLA: I think you get a lot more animal content than I do
SARAH: I do. I get I specifically get a lot more cat content because. Our friend miranda and also my roommate send me cat content
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: and and so then I will get more and then I will also send it to them. And so it's just like
KAYLA: it's a circle
SARAH: Yeah. You know what? The internet is for cats and it always has been
KAYLA: so true
SARAH: but yeah. No, the original if you go to that tiktok audio like the original video is just like a Missile in a sleeping cap in a bed
(laughter)
KAYLA: That's very good
SARAH: the missile is just a little sleeby guy the missile is very tired from splashing bandits. It needs just a little sleep. Anyway, you can tell us about your beef your juice your neighborhood missile
KAYLA: Your pickpocket
(55:00)
sarah: but I hope you don't have a neighborhood missile if you live in a place that has a neighborhood missile
KAYLA:. I'm sorry
SARAH: I’m really sorry.
KAYLA: That’s fucked up
SARAH: You but you can tell us about those things that our social media at sounds fake pot. We also have patreons patrons. They give us money for some reason. Thank you so much. That's so kind of you. Um our five dollar patrons.
KAYLA: We're pickpocketing them. Attenzione. We are the pickpocket
SARAH: Um our five dollar patrons who we are promoting this week are CinnamonToastPunch who I believe on Discord said
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: that they just they changed their… Their yes their level and I guess that's why they got forgotten or something. I don't know.
KAYLA: Who’s to say?
SARAH: Clare, Clare Olson, Colleen Walsh, Doug Rice and Edward Hayes-Holgate. We also have two new $5 patrons. They are Morgan Inpink – Impink. Morgan I'm pink. How often do you get that? Do you get that a lot?
KAYLA: every day probably
SARAH: Yeah, I'm so sorry, and Rebekah Monnin. So thank you to both of you
KAYLA: Thank you so much
SARAH: And I think you're the best
KAYLA: Hello!
SARAH: our ten dollar patrons who are promoting something this week are Alyson who would like to promote Arden Gray By Ray Stoeve, Arcnes who would like to promote the trevor project, Ben MacLeod who would like to promote (questioning sound), Benjamin Ybarra who would like to promote tabletop games. Our other ten dollar patrons are thinking deeply are they might be for all I know are Boston Smith, David Harris, Derick and carissa, Elle Bitter, my Aunt Jeannie, Martin Chiesl, Purple Hayes, the Barefoot Backpacker, Ruby, SongOfStorm. Our $15 patrons are Andrew Hillum the Invisible Spectrum podcast, click4caroline who’d like to promote Ace of Hearts, Dia Chappell twitch.tv/melodydia, Hector Murillo who’d like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person, and Maff who would like to promote catching up on the podcast after two years. And now you have a month! It’s just really going in.
KAYLA: so much time
SARAH: even if you just do one episode a week. I mean, that's four more episodes that you've got on. It's just
KAYLA: so true.
SARAH: It's just like normal
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: Nathaniel white who would like to promote nathanieljwhitedesigns.com and Kayla’s AUnt Nina who would like to promote katemaggartart.com. Our twenty dollar patron is Dragonfly who would like to promote staying cool. It is really hot like everywhere.
KAYLA: Oh, it's so hot
SARAH: everywhere
KAYLA: it's so hot.
SARAH: We we we keep like breaking records of like hottest day on ever in the world that we have
KAYLA: the SSRI girlies are struggling this summer
SARAH: I heard about in Arizona the other day. It was like the 20th consecutive day of being over 110 or 115 and You know what the low was at night?
KAYLA: like 90?
SARAH: 97
KAYLA:there's a man who does an annual run through death valley
SARAH: jesus christ
KAYLA: with a full costume on
SARAH: oh jesus christ
KAYLA: A full darth vader costume with the helmet.
SARAH: Why is he not dying?
KAYLA: Um this year because he was recovering from an injury his mile was 10 minutes. Usually no his record which was two years ago is six minutes
SARAH: Oh my god, wait, how far does he run?
KAYLA: I think maybe just a mile
SARAH: That's not that bad. I was thinking he was running like a long
KAYLA: I mean it’s over a hundred degrees in a full black costume. I mean, that's a lot
SARAH: Well, I'm just thinking in the context of like I'm thinking of like GR mom Jen from the golden ratio. She runs super marathons and she lives in the florida keys.
KAYLA: I'd rather die.
SARAH: So she has had to run. On very long distances in very hot and very humid. and I cannot believe she does that to herself on purpose
KAYLA: She doesn't have to let's change the wording. You said she has to she doesn't
SARAH: She doesn't. (singing) Someday her butt won't hurt but today is not that day. She sings that song sometimes her butt always hurts. She has a butt problem. She injured her butt. Like months and months ago
KAYLA: maybe if she didn't run like that, we'd all be fine
SARAH: Anyway, thanks for listening tune in not next Sunday, not the following Sunday, not the following sunday. Maybe the following on August 27th.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: more of us in your ears. Uh, enjoy your break everyone and stay cool.
KAYLA: And have a good summer. And until then take good care of your cows
SARAH: keep them cool, too They're really hot
KAYLA: give them a kiss
SARAH: Give them a little bit of water
KAYLA: Attenzione pickpocket!
SARAH: (squeaking sound)
(59:25)