Ep 18: Asexual People and Kids
SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a straight girl (that’s me, Kayla)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: asexual people and kids.
BOTH: — Sounds fake, but okay.
*Intro music*
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod. This week –
KAYLA: We are sleepy.
SARAH: I’m actually okay, it’s just you.
KAYLA: I’m very sleepy.
SARAH: I’ve made up for my sleep deprivation over the last two days.
KAYLA: I’ve slept a lot, but I’ve also stress-dreamed a lot.
SARAH: Have you stress-dreamed a lot about how great this pod’s about to be? That didn’t make any sense.
KAYLA: No, why would I be stressed about that?
SARAH: I don’t know, I’ve made a mistake.
KAYLA: Anyway.
SARAH: Alright, first, I’m sorry last week’s episode was so late.
KAYLA: We recorded it with plenty of time.
SARAH: We recorded it on Friday.
KAYLA: As we usually do.
SARAH: And then my life fell apart so much –
KAYLA: Things fell apart.
SARAH: That I just did not have time to edit it until Wednesday.
KAYLA: Listen, unfortunately this podcast does not make us enough money so we can quit school, so we had finals week and that’s why I’m so sleepy. And Sarah had to finish writing a thousand things, you know. Things happen.
SARAH: Yep, we struggled. But we got it to you. Also, another note.
KAYLA: A note. Which one, B flat?
SARAH: Kayla –
KAYLA: Oh, I’m funny.
SARAH: Another note is we’re going to be taking two weeks off from podding the next two weeks, because for the holidays we’re not going to be seeing each other –
KAYLA: Good.
SARAH: And we don’t really have time to be pre-recording right now because we’re still in the midst of finals.
KAYLA: And after finals, we have a musical to write.
SARAH: Yeah, and I have to get my wisdom teeth out.
KAYLA: I’m very excited for Sarah to get her wisdom teeth out.
SARAH: So we’re going to be taking two weeks off. We hope you don’t hate us.
KAYLA: Sorry.
SARAH: Go back and listen to your favourite episodes during those weeks, idk. Enjoy some time with your family if you’re celebrating any of the holidays.
KAYLA: Eat a cake.
SARAH: Eat a cake. We’ll see you next year and it’ll be dope.
KAYLA: (gasps) Next year.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It’s very exciting.
SARAH: Yeah. But anyway, now that you know that, this week the show goes on.
KAYLA: (sings) The show must go –
SARAH: Alright, shh.
KAYLA: We watched Moulin Rouge last night.
SARAH: I only watched the last half an hour of it, but I did see that song.
KAYLA: It’s the best half an hour of the movie anyway.
SARAH: That is true. This week we’re talking about asexual people and kids, because that’s a thing that there’s confusion around.
KAYLA: Sure is.
SARAH: Kayla, what do you know about asexual people having kids?
KAYLA: Well, I would think that it would – I would assume that it – Interesting.
SARAH: Hmmm.
KAYLA: I would assume it works like any other sexuality, where some people want them and some people don’t.
SARAH: Wow. What a thought.
KAYLA: Am I incorrect?
SARAH: Oh no, you’re right.
KAYLA: I feel like I’m exactly right.
SARAH: No, you’re right.
KAYLA: Like some straight people don’t want kids, and some do. Some gay people want kids, some don’t.
SARAH: I think there’s definitely this thought by a lot of people who don’t fully understand the asexual community, that all ace people will never have kids.
KAYLA: Yeah, because people are like, well, to have a kid, you have to have sex. And people are like, well, no ace people have sex which, as we talked about last week?
SARAH: Two weeks ago? Two weeks ago.
KAYLA: Sure. That is fundamentally incorrect. Also, there’s this nice thing called adoption.
SARAH: Yeah. There are so many ways to acquire children.
KAYLA: Just pick them up off the street.
SARAH: You can foster kids; you can adopt kids.
KAYLA: But don’t foster children just to get money. Because that’s bad.
SARAH: Yeah, good one. Foster children if you have the capability to do so, and are willing to. Anyway, that’s a whole other tangent.
KAYLA: Not this podcast.
SARAH: So basically a lot of people, they do think that ace people can’t or don’t have kids, and that’s just not the case. There’s a spectrum of people – You know what the moral of this podcast is? Everything’s a spectrum, Kayla.
KAYLA: Sounds Spectrum But Okay.
SARAH: But –
KAYLA: Stop it (slaps Sarah’s hand).
SARAH: Sorry, I’m playing with Kayla’s pants.
KAYLA: We’re sitting in bed together. Romantic. See the Twitter for a cute pic of how we look –
SARAH: That pic’s not very cute. My forehead’s huge.
KAYLA: We look like literal toes. Anyway.
SARAH: This is going off to a great start.
KAYLA: I’m so sleepy.
SARAH: But basically, some people do want kids and others don’t want kids. The thing with asexuality though, is that it’s a little more complicated than that. I mean, this is kind of true of people who are gay as well.
KAYLA: I’d say anyone that’s not straight, having kids is -
SARAH: Or not in a hetero –
KAYLA: Anyone that is not in a heterosexual relationship where both people are cis.
SARAH: Where both people are cis and where both people are non-ace.
KAYLA: Right. I would say that anything beyond that gets complicated.
SARAH: Yeah, and asexuality is definitely no exception to that, because it really a lot of times depends on where you fall – If you do want kids, where you fall in the spectrum of sex positive or sex repulsed impacts how you’re able to go about doing that.
KAYLA: How you’re going to acquire that child. I also think something that’s interesting is, I know I’ve had conversations with people that have a fundamental misunderstanding of ace people – I get why they would think this if they don’t understand it, but also from my perspective I think it’s so silly that they’re like, I thought that since Sarah is asexual, she just doesn’t really value close relationships of any kind.
SARAH: (boos)
KAYLA: So people might think as a stereotype, ace people have no emotions and so how could they raise a child, when they can’t love anyone? And it’s like, you are very able to love people. For instance, you love me.
SARAH: I hate Kayla.
KAYLA: Sarah’s in love with me. But just because you don’t romantically love, [it] does not mean you are incapable of having a deep bond with someone.
SARAH: I think that is kind of the problem with me.
KAYLA: Well, it’s just –
SARAH: The problem with me personally is that I have these things about me that are because I’m aro-ace, and then there are traits that I have about me that have nothing to do with my sexuality –
KAYLA: But do fit the stereotype.
SARAH: But fit the stereotype, because I don’t want kids and I am not the most emotionally open person on the planet.
KAYLA: No. You struggle, and emotions often make you uncomfortable.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: You also don’t like being touched, you don’t want kids, there’s a lot about –
SARAH: Our legs are touching right now.
KAYLA: So romantic. There’s a lot about you that fits the stereotype, but isn’t necessarily because you’re aro-ace.
SARAH: Right, and me not wanting kids, and my emotional distance and not really liking being touched that much, none of those things are because of my sexuality.
KAYLA: It’s just there.
SARAH: They’re just there, and they overlap with my sexuality in a way that does fulfil some stereotypes that can be harmful, so that’s a struggle. Because you have to explain to people not everyone is like this, but then they’re like, well you’re like that and I’m like, okay but that’s not because I’m ace.
KAYLA: It’s very hard for people, especially with asexuality since so many people don’t know anything about it, that you meet your first ace person and you take their traits, and you transfer them to every other ace person you ever meet. It’d be like if you met one gay person and they were super butch and you were like, well, all gay people are butch now, because you’ve only met one person. It’s like, that’s not how anything works.
SARAH: That’s not how anything works, yeah. Everyone’s different, Kayla.
KAYLA: Everyone is people.
SARAH: Everyone is people. Except when they’re not.
KAYLA: Interesting.
SARAH: So we found, I found some stuff about this on the internet.
KAYLA: I found nothing.
SARAH: Kayla found nothing. I think the first one I want to look at is this article, it’s one of those Q&A things where people send in questions and then someone answers them, and the website is called mykidisgay.com –
KAYLA: Oh my God.
SARAH: So basically, the question is “My daughter says she is asexual, will I ever be a grandma?”
KAYLA: (groans)
SARAH: I have a very fundamental issue with that question. I think it’s a fair question to ask, I think the problem is when people are so upset, they’re more upset by not being a grandma.
KAYLA: Well I think that’s often a problem with anyone again who’s not straight and cis. I think that’s often a question when you come out to a parent as gay, it’s something common you hear that they’re like, oh my God I’m never going to have a grandkid.
And it’s like, a) that’s not how anything works, there’s ways to have a grandchild and b) I don’t know, I get why it’s a concern that people have right away, because I think whenever someone comes out, you think about all of the things that you see as “normal” and you’re like, oh, this isn’t how things are anymore. You probably grow up expecting to have your life normal and in a certain way, and then it’s not and you might be like aah, but also, stop.
SARAH: On one hand, it’s just because of heteronormativity that people will think that way, but on the other hand it’s very selfish, I think, to be like, I had a kid so that I would have grandkids. That shouldn’t be why you had kids. And if your kid decides not to have a grandchild, whether that’s because they’re ace, whether that’s because they just don’t want kids for whatever reason, that shouldn’t be something you have to come to terms with. On one hand, I can get accepting that might take a hot second –
(10:00)
KAYLA: I can definitely understand why you’d be upset, especially if it’s something that you very much want, but it’s also not your decision.
SARAH: It’s not your decision and you should love your kid enough that whatever they want, and what is best for them, should also be the best thing for you.
KAYLA: Right. They’re your kid.
SARAH: Exactly. So I have an issue with that. But this article does a very good job of explaining what happens. At the beginning they go “The short answer? Maybe.” And then it’s fairly long, I’m not going to read the whole thing although I would recommend you do, we’re going to post it on our Patreon.
KAYLA: You don’t have to be a patron to see it, it’ll just be on there.
SARAH: She says, the long answer – I think it’s a she? No, it’s a he, Beck. I’m assuming it’s a he, I’m making lots of assumptions here. Long answer, “Whether or not you will have grandchildren depends on your daughter and her relationship to asexuality, and most importantly, what she wants.” And he goes on to talk about explaining what asexuality means, but he also specifically goes into sex positive and sex repulsed, and he uses the same definition that I generally have.
And then he’s saying if she decides she does want kids, because she might not be aro for starters, and he’s like, “Consider lesbian or gay couples who want children, or heterosexual couples who biologically aren’t capable of having children naturally. All the options that are available to those families are available to your daughter as well. Perhaps if she’s under the sex repulsed category and sex is not something that she ever wants to participate in, she could try IVF or maybe she would prefer adoption. The point is, conceiving a child through intercourse isn’t the only way to have children anymore.” And yeah, he sums it up quite well.
KAYLA: It’s just so interesting to me that society as a whole just assumes that everyone wants and is going to have a kid, so it’s always interesting to me when people come out as any sexuality and the question is “Am I going to be a grandparent?” or “Will they have a kid?” and it’s like, why is that a question you’re just asking now?
SARAH: Right. If I were straight, I would not want kids still.
KAYLA: Yeah, you’ve never wanted kids.
SARAH: Yeah. Well, when I was little, I wanted kids because I thought I was supposed to. You know how like, when you’re little – Okay, maybe not everyone did this but when I was little, I would imagine what the names of my kids would be, but I would never imagine anything beyond that. And I just really fucking like names.
KAYLA: You just like naming things.
SARAH: I like naming things, and in hindsight I understand that’s why I was thinking about names like that, not because I wanted kids but because I just like names.
KAYLA: But also, you had assumed that you would grow up and have kids, because that’s what everyone does.
SARAH: Yeah, and I don’t know if I’ve ever talked about this before, I think we’ll probably go into more detail on it in another pod, because we had that suggestion from one of our Twitter followers about the topic of questioning, and I can go through my whole life story in that one. But basically, it wasn’t until high school when I was faced with someone who didn’t follow these heteronormative pathways that I realized that was an option for me too. And that was before I ever realized I was ace, and I was like wait, I don’t want kids.
KAYLA: You not wanting to have kids is nothing to do with your sexuality, but it’s something that is so often very linked to people’s sexuality because people inherently link kids with sex, which makes sense because that’s how you make a kid, but that’s also not the only way to acquire a child.
SARAH: Right, exactly. And then at the end of this article, he does a good job – He’s saying “Ultimately, this is 100 percent your daughter’s decision. Whether or not to have children is everyone woman’s choice, regardless of their biology or sexual or romantic orientation. At the end of the day your daughter could decide that she doesn’t want children and that decision could have absolutely nothing to do with sexuality. Some women decide not to have children for a wide variety of reasons so aside from all the sexuality factors, she might not even want to have kids in the first place.”
And then he’s saying it’s important to communicate, blah blah blah, she trusted you with that information so you should respect that. “It is important to remember that your daughter came to you with this information about her identity because she trusted you to love and support her for who she really is. Part of that is supporting her in her decision regarding children as well. As disappointing as it might be for you if she decides not to have children, it will be so much better for your daughter to have your support because, at the end of the day, it is up to her to decide if, when, and how she wants to have children. She may decide that she doesn’t want kids, and part of that decision might be influenced by her asexuality, but it won’t be just because of her asexuality.”
And I think that’s good, that’s well written and well explained, because ultimately it is that person’s decision about whether or not they want kids. It might be because they’re ace, but in all likelihood it’s because of a wide variety of reasons, and asexuality might be one of them but it doesn’t have to be one of them. You need to accept that this is your kid’s life, not yours and just because you had kids, doesn’t mean that they’re going to want to have kids also.
KAYLA: I think that like I said, that’s just a societal problem as a whole. If you have a lot of people our age, when they say they don’t want kids, people older than them are like, oh you’ll change your mind. I have cousins in my family who have gone through stages of not wanting kids, and then wanting kids, and not being sure which is also completely normal. Like, it is completely okay and normal to change your mind too, there’s just an underlying assumption that everyone will [want kids].
SARAH: Especially women.
KAYLA: I remember when my cousins were talking about it, my dad even was like, oh they’ll change their mind, they’re just young now and they’re figuring it out, and wouldn’t it be such a sad life not to have kids and whatever.
SARAH: (groans)
KAYLA: And it’s like, yeah maybe it would be for you and I know for me, I want kids and I would probably be sad if I never had kids.
SARAH: I’m going to be a dope ass aunt.
KAYLA: You’re going to influence my children in such bad ways.
SARAH: I’m just here to be the aunt of my sister’s kids, I’m here to be the aunt of all my friends’ kids –
KAYLA: We’re not friends.
SARAH: I’ll be the aunt of Miranda’s kids.
KAYLA: Interesting. So yeah, there’s just this assumption that you need kids to be happy, which is also very selfish if the only reason you’re having a child is for you. You can’t just pop out a human and then be like, this is mine. Like, no.
SARAH: Yeah, I think a lot of people view having children in a way that’s kind of harmful, and I think a lot of times as they get older, they might realise a little bit that this is not about you. This has never been about you. Raising kids has to be a very selfless thing because you do everything for your kids.
KAYLA: Obviously, having a kid can’t not involve something about you, because it has to involve whether you want kids or not, but if you’re just having a kid for you, think about how harmful that is to your kid as a human being. That’s a human that you’re raising.
SARAH: When people say – People don’t really say this but you can tell sometimes when people are having are having kids just for themselves. I just don’t understand why, it doesn’t make sense to me.
KAYLA: I mean, I get it, I think in a way kids can be a status symbol or a way that you can show off, but how fucked up is that, that instead of just getting a car you’re having a human and showing them off?
SARAH: Or these parents who try to live vicariously through their kid, and force their kid to do the things they never did or never could. That’s going to fuck up your kid.
KAYLA: It’s a human, it’s not a thing that you can just have and show off, it’s a person.
BOTH: (groan)
KAYLA: That’s also why having kids is just very scary. It’s like, that’s a little person right there that you’re fucking up.
SARAH: I feel like a lot of times, when people say that they don’t want kids, they see that as a selfish thing. I mean, if anything, [it’s] the opposite because I’m aware that like, if a kid was popped in my lap, I’m sure I could handle it somehow –
KAYLA: I’m sure you could figure it out.
SARAH: I’m sure I could deal with it and I would care for the kid and I would try my very hardest not to fuck them up. But with that said, I just don’t feel as though I’m equipped to raise a child, and because I don’t want kids, that’s just something – I don’t feel a great connection to kids. Which is funny because when I’m at home, I do work with kids –
KAYLA: You hate kids though.
SARAH: But I don’t – When I say I hate kids, I mean I hate spending more than like, an hour with kids. That’s the good thing about my job, I coach gymnastics so I deal with kids for like, an hour, maybe a little bit more than that at a time, and then I get a new batch of kids. And for me, that’s a good amount of time to be like, alright, this is good, now your mom can deal with the fact that you’re crying.
I think to some people that seems very selfish, as though I feel like I can’t handle having kids but it’s just like, it’s not the right thing for my life, and with my career as well, it makes it more difficult.
KAYLA: If you have someone that doesn’t want to have kids, and doesn’t think that they’d be a good parent, it is not selfish because if you made that person have a kid, they would be a terrible parent and that’s just fucking up a human.
(20:00)
SARAH: Yeah, and for me it’s like, it’s not pessimism being “Oh, I’d be a horrible parent.” I think I’d be an okay parent –
KAYLA: Eh.
SARAH: I said “okay”.
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: But because I don’t want that, even if I did an okay job raising my kid, the fact that I don’t want this kid is going to influence that child.
KAYLA: I think we talked about this in a past episode, about women that didn’t want to have kids and they did and then they were like, yeah, I never wanted this kid. I love them, but I still regret it. And there’s no way that your kid doesn’t know that on an inherent level. People are smart, people are intuitive, you have to think that one day when that kid grows up, they’re either going to find out that you never wanted them, or they’re just going to be able to tell throughout their life and how fucked up is that?
SARAH: Right. Also, raising a child – As soon as you have that child, your life is forever changed, you can’t undo it.
KAYLA: Nope. Even if you get rid of the kid.
SARAH: I mean, that influences you probably, I’m sure. I know people who are like, you have to dedicate the next eighteen years of your life to this kid –
KAYLA: It’s not just eighteen years.
SARAH: If you only dedicate the next eighteen years of your life to this kid, you’re a shitty parent. I’m sorry.
KAYLA: That’s awful.
SARAH: Especially – I’m about to sound like a middle-aged man “In this economy…”
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: But I still rely heavily on my parents for financial reasons. I understand that I come from a place of privilege and that I’m able to do that, but also with our generation, with the millennial generation specifically in the United States, we’re fucked. We have to rely on our parents still, especially if we’re in college.
KAYLA: Yeah, I personally don’t know how I would live if I didn’t have my parents’ financial security. I don’t think I could afford college –
SARAH: Oh, I would not be able to afford college.
KAYLA: I would not be able to afford college, I would not be able to live on my own, I’d have to live with my parents. I also, for me personally, I’m twenty and I still rely on my parents for emotional support too. The other day I had a stomach ache, and I called every member of my family because I was like, I’ve been in pain for three hours and I don’t know what to do with myself, and I called every member of my family. I’m twenty, and they still are dealing with that stuff.
SARAH: The last two weeks I’ve had to go home twice to go to various doctors’ appointments, not because anything’s wrong with me, just for various reasons. And although I am twenty years old, my mother came with me to both of them.
KAYLA: Well for me it’s a little different because my sister’s a nurse, and so I call her with all medical problems and she comes to doctors’ things with me just like, for fun. So it’s a little different, but when I called my parents because I didn’t feel well, I made the mistake of opening my dad’s phone call by saying “I’m dying”, and to me that’s not something you say when you’re dying so I was like, it’s fine. But it scared him, and I’m twenty and he’s still very concerned, because he’s a parent and because that’s his life now.
SARAH: For a lot of people, family is this huge priority and just culturally family is this big thing that matters to a lot of people. A lot of people, if you aren’t close to your family they’re like, what the fuck? And I think a lot of times, friendships are devalued because of that. That’s a whole other thing, I think we’ve mentioned this briefly before.
KAYLA: Yeah, I’m sure.
SARAH: Basically, you’re stuck with your kids for the rest of your life.
KAYLA: That’s a big deal.
SARAH: To some extent, you are responsible for how they turn out. Obviously, if they really are horrible people that might not necessarily be your fault.
KAYLA: But you definitely have a large effect on your child.
SARAH: You have a large hand in how your child ends up.
KAYLA: And if you don’t want that, but you’re forced to have it, that’s awful. So it’s not selfish, that’s just you choosing not to fuck up a child.
SARAH: Basically. And it’s like, I know that if I were a parent, I would really – A lot of people are like, it’s so fulfilling, it’s great and I can tell you right now –
KAYLA: You would not be happy.
SARAH: I would not be happy.
KAYLA: And your kid would know that.
SARAH: Exactly. I don’t want to do that to a person. I’ll happily be the cool aunt who’s like, I’ll babysit your kid for three hours and then go home, you know?
KAYLA: And that has nothing to do with sexuality either. What makes someone equipped to be a parent, or a good parent, is that they want a kid and it has nothing to do with what sexuality you are. An ace person could be a wonderful parent, or a straight person could be a terrible parent, and a lot of that has to do with whether you want the kid in the first place, and the reason you’re having the kid.
SARAH: For me, I do not want to necessarily go through the act of conceiving a child, I don’t want to be pregnant, and I do not want to give birth, but those things are independent from my not wanting a kid. They just add to it.
KAYLA: That’s just another situation.
SARAH: So if I did decide I wanted a kid, I would probably adopt a kid which - When I was younger, I didn’t like the idea. Not that I think adoption is bad, adoption is very good but when I was a kid, I thought it was like, that wouldn’t be my kid. But that is your kid.
KAYLA: That’s your kid.
SARAH: Even if they’re not genetically related to you –
KAYLA: That’s your fucking kid.
SARAH: It’s your kid and so if I for some reason decided to change my mind, which for me would be a very big thing –
KAYLA: If you one day called me and was like, I’m adopting, I would fly to wherever you were and sit you down and be like, excuse me, what crisis are you going through right now?
SARAH: But if I for some reason did decide to have a kid, I would adopt a kid. If your kids have godparents, technically their job is if something happens to your parents, they take care of you.
KAYLA: Usually that person is in the will as the person that gets the kid.
SARAH: Right. I will happily be people’s godparents –
KAYLA: Oh, that’s terrifying.
SARAH: But I’m going forward with the hope that they don’t die.
KAYLA: Also, adopting a kid and being sad that it’s not your real kid is the same kind of thing as people valuing family so much over friends. Which is not wrong, it’s fine to do that, but it’s another thing to devalue other people’s friendships if they do place that higher than family.
SARAH: Right. I have a very high value on my family, some of my cousins I’m very close with. We have swapped godparents, so my aunt and uncle, one of them is one of my sister’s godparents and one of them is mine, and then my parents are both a godparent of their kids, and so if something had happened to my parents, they would have taken care of us. My two cousins are still minors, and so if something did happen to my aunt and uncle, my parents would absolutely take them. We’re very close with those people but I also highly value my friendships as well.
KAYLA: Oh my, Sarah loves me? This just in.
SARAH: You think that you’re a friendship that I value?
KAYLA: Whoops, I forgot that we’re in love and we’re married.
SARAH: Okay. But just because I value one very highly, doesn’t mean I don’t value the other.
KAYLA: Doesn’t mean it would be wrong if it was reversed.
SARAH: Right. And so that’s a thing – I kind of lost track with where we were going with this.
KAYLA: (sighs loudly)
SARAH: Stop making weird noises. Enough. Anyway, there’s another forum on asexuality.org and it’s this person basically saying – So she’s in a relationship and her partner, she says they think they’re asexual and aromantic, and she is a sexual woman.
KAYLA: So they are an asexual woman, their partner might be aro-ace.
SARAH: They are not asexual. Their partner they think is both aro and ace. They’re basically saying – asexual and aromantic I think. No, sorry, asexual romantic, not aromantic. And they said, “Not to the point where we aren’t physically intimate, but penetrative sex is very much off the cards unless I get lucky which is hardly ever”.
KAYLA: Get lucky is also – That’s some wording.
SARAH: Don’t like that phrase. But they’re saying they’re also completely against the idea of babies and marriage. “I would like to know if his asexuality somehow ties into this thought process, or it’s a completely separate issue? Sorry, I don’t want to come across as patronizing in any way, our discovery of his asexuality has only been very recent so I’m trying to understand it all myself”, which is fair.
KAYLA: This is also very exciting that this is a male asexual person, because I find – this is maybe a topic for another time - that people don’t think male asexual people exist.
SARAH: Yeah, it’s a problem. They’re basically saying please help, I don’t understand. So, the people in the comments are very nice because they’re like no, you’re not being patronizing, we’re glad that you’re trying to figure this out. There’s a lot of different people talking about their own situations here, and a lot of different things come up. The first person is saying I’ve always wanted to find someone to settle down with, marriage they don’t know, but they for sure want children. I think that’s also important to recognise, that you don’t have to be married to have a good relationship and have kids. It can be absolutely beneficial on a legal standpoint –
KAYLA: It can, and being a single parent is obviously very difficult for a lot of reasons, but that does not mean that you have to be married to have a kid. You could have a QPR and have a kid.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: Aw, zucchini baby.
SARAH: I mean, some people do that.
(30:00)
KAYLA: Yeah. I forget where it is, but I saw an article recently that some state was in the process of legalizing or had already legalized third parents, so a baby could have three parents legally.
SARAH: Wow, that’s fun. So, this person’s saying “In my case, my asexuality did not impact my desire to become married with a child, however we did adopt in part because I could not possibly fathom pushing a baby out of there”.
KAYLA: Incredible.
SARAH: And then let’s see, what else? “There are many married or formerly married AVENites,” aka people who use the AVEN website, so ace people “who also have children, myself included, minus the married part. I personally, despite never having any desire for sex, always wanted to be a father. There is little to no correlation to asexuality and one’s desire for a family”. So he’s not married but he does have a child which is cool, I think that’s fine. I think especially if you’re going to be a single parent –
KAYLA: That’s a lot of responsibility.
SARAH: But with that said, I think it’s good to be able to recognize that like, hey, this is a thing that you can do, you don’t have to be married. There’s a lot to consider but it’s still very, very possible. This person is saying - The person who asked the question commented again and they said “I of course do not tie his sexuality to his goals or wants in life, but I do somehow feel that he may feel he would be trapping me, or bringing me into something that he feels I cannot be fully satisfied in” which is fair, that’s just something that will happen in relationships, when you’re in a relationship with a person who is ace, or under the ace umbrella.
KAYLA: I also think regardless of sexuality, the decision if you want children is also something that’s very big in relationships, that’s a lot.
SARAH: If there is a person who is not ace in a romantic relationship with someone who is ace, it could honestly go the other way around where the ace person does want kids, and the non-ace person doesn’t. There’s no hard and fast rule as to how that’s supposed to go.
This one’s funny because they’re like, “You don’t come off as patronizing at all, you have the right to ask any and all questions you have as long as you stay respectful and you are welcome” and then it’s just the cake emoji which is very funny. But yeah, this person is just saying every asexual person is different, just like every sexual person is different.
KAYLA: Another thing with ace communities that I’m confused about, what is the thing with dragons?
SARAH: It’s just a joke, that ace people like dragons.
KAYLA: Okay. Is that just a stereotype that people have?
SARAH: It’s sort of a stereotype –
KAYLA: Why?
SARAH: But it was sort of just claimed as a joke, honestly.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: My computer is dying really fast. We’ve lost 20% in the past 36 minutes. Basically, there’s a multitude of different viewpoints, and what people want is very different from person to person and perhaps there are more people in the ace community who don’t have kids, but that could be for various reasons. It could be that the number of people who want kids is the same. I feel like it might not quite be the same, just because so many people, if you’re more ace repulsed – sorry, more sex repulsed –
KAYLA: I’m ace repulsed.
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: You’re a little more sex repulsed, you might be a little bit more wary of having kids, but obviously there are other ways to acquire children. The problem is that those ways tend to be expensive, so that’s just a struggle that all people have who aren’t going to acquire children the “natural” way – It’s expensive and so even if you want kids, I mean having kids in general is very expensive –
KAYLA: It’s so expensive.
SARAH: Very expensive. But just the process of acquiring that child, whether that be getting pregnant or adopting –
KAYLA: Either way.
SARAH: Or even fostering and then adopting, or just fostering, it’s a very expensive process. So it’s something that some people just financially can’t do, which sucks.
KAYLA: Which is fine.
SARAH: But that sucks though.
KAYLA: It sucks if you want kids, but it’s also fine.
SARAH: If you want kids, it’s kind of the worst. Do you have any other thoughts on the subject?
KAYLA: I think a lot of it goes back to what we talked about, it was like episode three, we talked about romantic vs platonic relationships and I think this ties in with it a lot. People look at asexual people, or I guess specifically aromantic people, and they’re like, well they don’t want a romantic relationship so they must not want any relationship, so they must have no value for family. There’re all these correlations that people are making, because for a lot of people those three things are very linked. A romantic relationship becomes someone that is your family, someone that you marry, is then is part of your family and so it’s very linked for people.
I think people just make a lot of these jumps in their head because for them, they are very linked, in a similar way that people’s sexual orientation and romantic orientation may be linked. So they may not understand people whose romantic and sexual orientation are not the same. I just think people have a lot of links in their head that they have trouble seeing past.
SARAH: I think that’s part of the thing that I struggle with too, just because there are cultural and societal expectations. It’s this thought of the crazy cat lady where, if you don’t get married, if you don’t have kids, you’re going to be lonely forever. That’s something that I still have to grapple with, understanding that like, no, that’s probably not the case for me, but the world is telling me that’s going to be the case. So it’s breaking through those stereotypes and making other people understand, and making yourself understand that there are so many ways to live a fulfilled life. Having kids is not the route for everyone.
KAYLA: I think that’s something that even I, as someone that wants a relationship and kids, struggles with. It’s often a fear I have that, oh if I never get married and have kids, I’m going to be so lonely and sad. It’s a fundamental issue where it’s like, I’ll probably still have friends.
SARAH: Every time they say that I’m like, bitch.
KAYLA: I’m right here. But it’s something that’s so societal, that you’ll be alone and sad and obsessed with work instead of family, and that’s not how it has to be.
SARAH: But also, I probably will be obsessed with work and that’s fucking okay because I’m hopefully, fingers crossed, going to really like what I do. People oftentimes will think that prioritizing work over having a family is this horrible, horrible thing and it’s like, you know what? Fuck off.
KAYLA: It’s fine.
SARAH: If you have a family already and you’re being like, fuck these people, that’s a little different.
KAYLA: That’s different.
SARAH: But if you don’t yet have a family, this idea of this working woman it’s like “Oh, she’s not married?” “She doesn’t have kids?”
KAYLA: It’s like The Proposal, how Sandra Bullock is a total bitch, and people are like – Have you ever seen this movie?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: Oh my God, we need to watch it.
SARAH: But I did think of Hogwarts School of Prayer and Miracles.
BOTH: (laugh)
KAYLA: Petunia’s like a working woman.
SARAH: It’s the idea that, bitch –
KAYLA: It’s fine.
SARAH: It’s fine, and maybe I will prioritise my career over having a family and guess what? That’s my choice, and that’s what I want, so fuck off.
KAYLA: However, if you pri-toritize
SARAH: Pri-toritize.
KAYLA: If you pri-toritize work over me, I’m going to be very mad.
SARAH: I’m going to have a dog.
KAYLA: Are you saying you’re going to pri-toritize –
BOTH: (laugh)
KAYLA: I can’t say it. You’re going to prioritize your dog over me?
SARAH: Maybe.
KAYLA: Well at least it’s a maybe. I still have time to sway you.
SARAH: Oh my God. But then you’ll meet the dog and you’ll be like, oh I understand.
KAYLA: Yeah, then I’ll like your dog more than you and your dog will be the reason I visit you and/or live with you.
SARAH: Okay. What’s our poll for the week, Kayla?
KAYLA: Oh fuck. Oh no.
SARAH: Another semi-serious episode makes it very hard.
KAYLA: We could do another semi-serious thing about “Do you want kids”?
SARAH: Actually, I kind of want to know, I am curious. I think our poll this week should be “Do you want kids?” and there will still be four options: One: I’m ace umbrella and yes. Two: I’m ace umbrella and no – Or should it just be LGBT in general?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: So I’m LGBTQA+ yes, I’m LGBTQA+ no, I’m straight yes, I’m straight no.
KAYLA: I like it. Then we’ll also see how many LGBT/straight people do our poll.
SARAH: Watch us get no straight responses.
KAYLA: I really don’t know because we usually have around 10 or 15 people who take the polls every week and it’s obviously not everyone, so it’ll be interesting to see. For last week’s poll, a recap: it was about what character you most identify as ace and Jesus was on there, and I personally did not vote for Jesus even though I think it’s very funny.
SARAH: Why did you not vote for Jesus?
KAYLA: I voted for what I actually thought. But someone else that wasn’t me voted for Jesus.
SARAH: That’s incredible.
KAYLA: One person, and to you out there, you one person, you are my fucking hero. I love you a lot.
SARAH: Incredible. Well, where – This is my part, not yours. You can find that poll on our Twitter @soundsfakepod. Our Tumblr’s been hopping, according to Kayla, the person who runs our Tumblr.
KAYLA: The person who should not be running our Tumblr but the person who does anyway.
SARAH: Listen, I edit the pod, I do my share.
KAYLA: You do the technical and I do the –
SARAH: Everything else.
KAYLA: Yup.
SARAH: Our Tumblr is soundsfakepod.tumblr.com, it’s popping.
KAYLA: She is a popping lady.
SARAH: You can also email us, soundsfakepod@gmail.com.
KAYLA: I love a good email.
SARAH: We appreciate your feedback, your love, we won’t appreciate your hate as much but we’ll take it into consideration as long as it’s worded in a respectful way.
KAYLA: Worded nicely. What if I send you hate mail through our own email?
SARAH: To my personal email?
KAYLA: No, I will use my personal email [address] to email our email [address] to hate on you.
(40:00)
SARAH: We would read it aloud in the next pod, and they will see how abusive you are towards me.
KAYLA: Interesting.
SARAH: Kayla’s not actually abusive towards me, I don’t want that taken the wrong way.
KAYLA: No wait Sarah, God. People already like you better, we don’t need to make me seem like an actual monster.
SARAH: Incredible. Kayla, where can they listen?
KAYLA: You can listen to this anywhere you find your podcasts: iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher Radio. A lot of you have been listening on Overcast and many other places.
SARAH: Overcast seems sad, I just really hate it when the sky’s overcast.
KAYLA: Interesting. So you can listen to us any of those places. Leave us a comment, a like, give us a review on iTunes, tell us how we’re doing and which one of us you like best. Actually, don’t do that because I know you all like Sarah better, and it makes me so sad.
SARAH: Listen, this is the one time I’m liked more than you, I have to accept it.
KAYLA: That’s not true.
SARAH: I have to just embrace it. We also have a Patreon, you can find us at patreon.com/soundsfakepod. We have four patrons.
KAYLA: We have four patrons funding us.
SARAH: So our first $5 patron is Sydney Mook.
KAYLA: Mooook.
SARAH: She’s great. We talked about her last week.
KAYLA: She is such a pleasant lady.
SARAH: She’s just so nice. Her Instagram is @sydneymoo. I got faster that time, because remember last week how I was so slow? You should follow her on Insta, it’s a grand time.
KAYLA: I think she has a cat? That seems familiar to me.
SARAH: Yeah. Then we have Jennifer Smart. Still smart, still Jennifer.
KAYLA: So smart. Jennifer is like, our age and is more talented than I will ever be.
SARAH: Rude.
KAYLA: Jennifer please, teach me your ways.
SARAH: Her YouTube is Lehen Productions. She’s got some cool stuff there. Then we have Asritha.
KAYLA: We sure do.
SARAH: Asritha is existing as well.
KAYLA: She’s back in town. Which doesn’t matter for any of you, but it matters for me.
SARAH: We do know her personally, and she finally returned to us.
KAYLA: She returned from war. That’s very exciting.
SARAH: Her Instagram is @asritha_v. Then for our $10 patron we have Emma.
KAYLA: Emma is graduating next week. Or this week? Or next week?
SARAH: Yeah, she’s graduating very soon.
KAYLA: She’s becoming a real adult lady.
SARAH: Unbelievable.
KAYLA: Wild.
SARAH: Her Twitter and Instagram are @emmatfink.
KAYLA: I like how we’re just giving life updates about our patrons that we know personally. Like, if you listen to all these episodes in order, you’ll hear a progression of how their lives are going.
SARAH: If we don’t know you personally and you’re a patron, and you want to just let us know how you’re doing –
KAYLA: So everyone else can know. Please, I would love life updates from you guys. I’m sure all of you that listen are very nice, but especially the people that have contacted us and tweeted us and emailed us that listen are all the sweetest people ever. So I would love to hear about your lives.
SARAH: I want to know.
KAYLA: Especially since I’m currently suffering, and would like to live vicariously through you.
SARAH: Incredible. Well thank you for listening, tune in not next Sunday, but in three Sundays for more of us in your ears. Have a great holiday season, we’ll see you next year.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows and your – What’s something that’s holidayish? Reindeer.
SARAH: Two turtle doves.
KAYLA: Until then, take care of your cows and your two turtle doves.